Why 170,025 Businesses Use EOS | Sheilah Hogan | Episode 93

Sheilah Hogan  00:00

False economy on revenue numbers like, ooh, that’s great. But where’s the profit? And where’s the cost of sales? And what are your biggest where your margins and, and that’s where they kind of go, Gosh, I don’t even know what our highest margin product is and what our lowest like level 10 meetings are always the probably the biggest growing pain for clients. But the scorecard to me is what tells me they’re absolutely running their business and the business is not running them.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:34

Good morning, and welcome to another episode of Better Business better life. Today I am joined by the delightful Sheila Hogan, who was a professional EOS implementer, based over in Sydney, in Australia, and Sheila joined the team. But a year ago, I think it was and we immediately hit it off. And so we decided we had to have this podcast and and talk about some of our mutual experiences. Welcome to the show, Sheila,

Sheilah Hogan  00:56

Thank you so much. Very excited to be here.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:58

It’s gonna be great. Hey, um, so tell me a little bit about how did you become an EOS implementer What’s your journey to get to where you are today?

Sheilah Hogan  01:06

It’s, you know, a great journey, because I found my way to my my people and, you know, just the core values. But I, I’m a serial entrepreneur, from the young age of before, I think 30 When I started my first business in New York City, I’ve, I’ve really just grown up among people, advisors, because I was young, I was made, I made sure that I was always seeking out people that had gone before me, and really leveraged their wisdom, their their failures, their wins their, their key, you know, nuggets of tips and tricks. And it got me a long way. And so I built a business in states. Then, in 2010, about two years after the financial crisis, I moved to Australia and continued to, I didn’t want to start another business because I was tired. I had three young children, I’d moved across the world, I was living in a foreign country, I wasn’t ambitious enough to say I know what I’m doing here, I just started getting a lay of the land. So what I did instead is I started running, helping other people run their businesses. So over the course of the past, to what, 10 years, 11 years, I’ve helped three different companies, you know, run smoother, grow faster, build an infrastructure, it’s something that I love to do. I’m a natural integrator. And what I found is that while I loved helping people be successful and find freedom and success in their life, I was going What am I doing, I’m you know, helping them be successful, and I need to do my own thing again. So when I turned 50, I did a lot of self reflection, it was that year of Alright, what do I want to be doing the next 1020 years and it’s time to, it’s time to get back out there, it’s time to do my own thing, be my own boss, make my own success. And, and I looked internally, and over the course of time, I looked back on what I was doing here, who I liked spending my time with what I what were my unique strengths and things that I love to do, that I’m great at, and it was, it was building businesses, it was helping people understand where the issues were, and how to, you know, unlock those issues and, and find solutions. And I, you know, it became quicker and quicker, that you could see things and then get it to the other side. So I realized I didn’t want to start a business. I didn’t want to build something from scratch. I’d done it. And I really liked that there were a few models out there that I had implemented when I was running those businesses, for other people, family run businesses, you know, a bunch of college roommates that were geniuses and started a great tech company and just growing crazy. And I thought Who do I like why do I like them? Who do I want to work with? And one of the businesses I implemented the US and in Roger was Roger and patch where my implementers and just loved them. So I called them on my journey of exploration of what the next thing would be. And I said, Tell me what you guys what you’re thinking what you think of the idea now like, you’ve got to become you’ve got to come join ELS and it took me a long time because I was I’m a high factfinder so I did my heavy duty research. I was gonna make sure that this wasn’t, you know, whimsical, new, new launch and I interviewed What 15 of the 22 implementers here in Asia Pacific at the time, including my vivacious Deb. And the two other models that I had been introduced to so, you know, competitive analysis, did my Excel spreadsheet, but resounding you know, yes, the model I loved and I implemented it twice and seen a huge results in a very short amount of time. So I knew it worked. And I loved the IP but I also like the autonomy that it allowed for me to be me. But the other, the other, you know, tipping point was the cotton the community, like the people, the EOS community worldwide is absolutely living up to everything that I researched everybody. They brought it. And I was like, these are my people. So long story short, that’s it. It’s not only the model that I’ve actually implemented myself into businesses and seen the results, I deliver it with authenticity and conviction. But the community, people like you and I, Deb, we are aligned in our core values, and our and our hopes and help first intention.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  05:37

Absolutely. And I part of the reason I kind of fell in love with it, too, is that it’s definitely the people. But I think also, as you said, it’s like, there are lots of frameworks and models out there. And they’re all really good. So there’s nothing wrong with any of them. But some of them just get a little bit too complicated. And I think for entrepreneurs, we don’t, we need a little bit of structure. But if you try and restrain us too much, we just throw the baby out with the bathwater, it’s too hard in order to do this. So I love the simplicity of it, that it was able to give us a framework or structure without being too restrictive.

Sheilah Hogan  06:04

And some people think it looks a bit too simple. So they’re skeptical, and I go, it has to be simple business is complex enough. So trust that it’s simple, but not easy.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:16

It’s actually really funny, it’s um, I did Outward Bound many, many years ago, when I’m about probably about eight years ago, I was the fattest oldest person that were bound. And when I, when I finished it, I was so proud of myself, they asked Did I want to actually have a brick inscribed, that could go and be put into the outward bound grounds? And my brick actually said, it was simple, but not easy. And it’s like that has now followed me through my life and everything that I do. So yeah, cool. So that was a little while ago that you joined us? What are the things that you have been most proud of in the last couple of years of your life that you’ve achieved over your whole life?

Sheilah Hogan  06:51

I think being the winning the Entrepreneur of the Year Award when I was 37 years old, in New York City, New York State, which is probably one of the most competitive islands in the world, so it was a real, and I was shocked, okay, so, you know, you go through the process, and you’re going this is we’ve got some stiff competition, we’re really, really lucky to be part of the process, and nominated etc, I really, I was actually here on holidays in Australia, in July in the snow at the red bow. And the awards were being given in New York, and we won and I just, I literally I fell off my chair, I just couldn’t believe it. So it was a real eye opener that, you know, never, never think other people can do it better than you or that you’re not, you know, shining because you’re if you’re not, if you don’t give it a go, you never know. And I think I’m constantly looking at times like that, that I put myself out of my comfort zone, and shared a little bit about myself and was vulnerable. And great things happen as a result of it. So that was, that’s probably one of my big, big, big, you know, claims to fame is that that’s huge that, you know, it’s not, it’s, it’s a little bit of validation, and that keeps you going and it keeps reminding you that you know, keep pushing. So that was purely based on innovation. I’m a tech geek. Um, so that was a big, that was a big moment in my career. And then the next big, big sliding doors moment was I’m married to an Australian, and we you know, when we got married and young, and you know, ambitious, and he was living in New York, and we had, you know, had those discussions of where are you going to? Where are you going to raise your children? Where are you gonna have children? Where are you going to raise them? You live up to different countries that you call home? So what what’s the plan? You have to make this so now I quickly said this, my love Australia, I’ve done, I’ve done Ohio. I’ve done 40 winters in my life. I’m really happy with the idea of raising our children and having a life in Australia. It’s a beautiful country, beautiful people. Well, you know, 12 years later, three kids later and a business my first baby, which was you know, at that point, 150 employees, seven locations, just the pride and joy of what I’d never imagined what could be. And you know, mixer this time. This time our kids are five, three, and Toots were going this time and I was like, oh, did we agree on that? It was really hard because I had to, you know, you can recreate your business and career but you can’t recreate the father of your children and your husband yet so it was a real it was a moment that the choices were had to be made. And that was a really hard time. So that was two years of unraveling my our life and realizing I’m moving to a foreign country and I’m gonna call it home but it’s not necessarily home right away. So that was big, but could not to this day is like you know, you can thank me again because it’s not that we waited until we were 60. To start enjoying our dream together, we we left at 40. And we left a lot behind. And but we did it all for the right reasons. And I guess that’ll bring you want to have those tips as you know, keep an eye on your why keep because when things are really difficult and they don’t feel comfortable, and they don’t, they’re not clear. You gotta go back to your why, and what’s important and your core values. So that was another big that’s what I’m proud of that we’re here and thriving and living a beautiful life in a beautiful country. And our children are thriving. And you know, I’ve got a career and a business here.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:41

That’s fantastic. I’m really pleased that it is a biggie as I love having moved countries twice. I appreciate how big that actually really is. Yeah. Okay, so we were talking before we came on the podcast, and you mentioned that you wanted to share some of your experiences around kind of stress and overwhelm, because it’s probably something that I think particularly after two years of pandemic, people are starting to feel tired, they are feeling stressed or overwhelmed. But even even in day to day in business, this can actually kind of sneak up on us. And before you know it, you know, we’re burned out. So tell us a little about your story.

Sheilah Hogan  11:12

Well, as I mentioned, we you know, I had a talent agency, it was a staffing agency, but it was a talent agency for fashion design and graphics and home furnishings in the states in New York. And, you know, it was grew very, very quickly in the financial crisis in 2008. And it affected everybody and living in New York, I was we had friends and, you know, clients that they, you know, Bear Stearns gone, literally things that you never thought you would ever see that we were witnessing. And so there was the highs, but then it’s you really understand what it takes during the lows. And I think that being vulnerable. And making sure that you know, that you don’t need to do this alone is one of my biggest lessons. As I said early on, when I was young, I was like, I don’t know everything, I have the I have the energy, I have the conviction to start this business and grow this business. But at the end of the day, I need advisors, people that have gone before me to make sure that I don’t trip. And I also need to people that, you know, when my courage and confidence was dwindling, I needed to go and borrow it from people that I trusted. So I’m constantly engaging with leaders type A entrepreneurial people that think that they have to carry it all on their own shoulders on the leader, it’s my business, it’s all on me, and I get to know doesn’t have to be you have a choice there. And I think the whole stress and overwhelm is so so real, no matter. Even if you’re holding a high executive job, or you’re running a business, if you have people reporting to depending on you, their salaries are reliant on decisions that you make, there is a massive burden that can either be shared or carried. And and it will, it’s not sustainable. So I always when I talk about the US, and before I knew Eos, I always was very out spoken about do you have someone to talk to you, personal professional? Who are you talking to? Do you have an inner circle? Do you have a coffee group? Do you have a mentor group? Do you have advisory board. So I think that whole reducing stress and overwhelm is something that we always have to be talking about, because it’s constant, whether it’s on a small level or epic level, like the pandemic, which is something no one ever saw coming. Financial crisis, you know, there’s all this talk about the economic downturn, and then in the coming year, everybody takes that on, but you have to make sure that you find coping mechanisms that you share the load, you borrow, and, and seek out support for, you know, courage and conviction and guidance when that happens. And there’s just so many ways to do that. It’s just a matter of finding the courage to be vulnerable and to ask for the help or at least seek it. And I guess, again, that that crosses between personal and professional career business, you name it, it’s it’s finally what people are talking about, especially for men. You know,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:31

But but sometimes it’s a little bit like the frog in the boiling pot of water, right? It’s building up on us but you don’t notice it. So one of the kinds of signs that you can look for to know that you are starting to get stressed, overwhelmed, potentially burnt out. One of the things people should be looking at to to establish that.

Sheilah Hogan  14:52

Other people can observe it in you or you hear you’re saving there’s not enough hours in the day, you always hear that there’s just not enough hours in the day. That’s always a telltale sign that they’re, they’re holding on to too much. In any or everyone’s in place to start or busy. Yeah, I’m just too busy, I haven’t had a holiday I, you know, I so many throw away phrases that you just hear and you go. That’s why we need to make time. Most of all, you know, it’s just I’m, I’m traveling way too much I think travel, when you look at the amount of people used to travel, it was a very telltale sign that it was just their life was being taken. They weren’t running their life, their life was running them. So you’d ask a few questions. But I always love the old, there’s not enough hours in the day, my business is growing faster than I can keep up or I just don’t, I’m stuck. I’m stuck. Nothing I’m doing seems to be doing making a difference or their body language, I think we were talking about like the top 10 signs of really listening to how people listening and watching. It’s not what they say it’s what they do. So their actions and their body language, you can tell energy levels, if you actually, if you actually tap in you go, their energy levels are they don’t have anything left in the tank, but they keep running around healthy and they make unhealthy choices. So I’ve been there was like 1217.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:39

And if I’m honest, it’s actually a little of me right now. I mean, we’re coming up to the end of the Christmas at the end of the Year and Christmas and, and we’re doing a lot of travel. And it’s the unhealthy choices. You know, I just know that I’m feeling exhausted, which is not like me, I’m usually very full of energy. So yes, I am reaching out and kind of going, Hey, I’m against that. And I booked myself in for some self-development in January, which I think will be really helpful as well. So yeah, I look for the signs, reach out, ask for some help. But what about the manosphere off, but you know, nobody can do things as well as I can. And if I let it go, you know, as you said, if you’re the owner of the business, you’re often it’s my responsibility, I need to make sure all these people are being paid, what would you say to that?

Sheilah Hogan  17:20

It’s not, again, it’s not sustainable. And there is a glass ceiling, there’s only so much you can do in a time given and there’s only so much that you’re actually good at, and that to the degree that that I really pull the red carpet right out from under them, I say, well, obviously, you know, you’re not working to your strengths. And that’s not a good strategy, as anyone told you. The business strategy is actually the best leader is those that empower others to do the work. You know, it’s just a matter, I always ask what books they’re reading, because I think you either have the art of war, or it’s servant leadership, or, you know, on that spectrum, but I always say the most strategic leaders are those that don’t do the work, but empowered delegate elevate those around them, and they fight and they build an army of people that will never leave them because they’re letting them do the work that they’re best at and you’re not great at and staying in that successful environment. So it’s showing me other it’s shedding the light on a life that could be and why it’s validated and why it’s actually not a weakness, but it’s a more strategic way of living your life. true leadership is empowering others and getting the most out of them, and, and letting them you know, work to their unique abilities where they’re not your unique abilities. So we in the US talk about, you know, the four quadrants. And sometimes if I have a whiteboard handy, I go there, you know, are you is this something that you love? And you’re good at? And how much time are you spending in the areas of, I’m maybe good at it, but I hate doing it, or I’m not even good at it. And I don’t like to doing it. So you just try to shed the light on how there’s people, really strategic leaders in the world, very successful doing a four hour workweek. It’s real, it can be real, it’s just a matter of choosing to let go. And that’s a big process. So showing them showing them how it could be that that’s not a weakness, it’s actually quite.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  19:34

And that’s part of what the EOS framework does, though. It also gives you the tools to have the confidence to let go as well. Right. So we’ve got everybody on the same page in terms of the vision where we’re headed, who we serve, what we’re doing, but also more importantly, having those kinds of data and the measurables in place so that you can measure how we’re doing against that and you can start to understand people actually do genuinely GW their role and can do what is required of them

Sheilah Hogan  19:58

And being just playing isn’t really surprised that people are happy to step up step in and support you and want to help and give it to me, I can do that I can do that in half the time that it takes you and, and I’d love to I’ve seen a lot of aha moments in those. The Vision building days focused is really hard. Those are those are interesting with, you know, spending a lot of time and looking at the organization, what what is the traditional organizational chart and flipping it around doing an accountability chart, that’s a real, that’s a real mind shift that I see happen a lot, and people kind of go, there’s a lot of one name and a lot of boxes, one name and a lot of these boxes. And that means we’re going to be a very slow road to where we want to get to because their capacity is completely overextended. So when you start, when you start flushing out how some people are holding on to too much, and then you put in a very practical, you know, two dimensional layout, and they kind of go, yeah, that’s some maybe I shouldn’t put my name in that box, and that box and that box. So it really does surface misalignment of what you want to get here. But you’re holding all of these roles and responsibilities, how is there’s a big gap, a big gap between where you want to get to, and how much capacity or incapacity exists in the current working relationships. So I love the tools that do the work for you. Because it just the information surfaces with that easygoing, being, you know, questioning, it just comes out with the truth is always in the room. If people are honest, and they’re doing it together, yeah,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:43

Yeah, as I say, the focus is usually quite tough, because it does challenge your your thinking about a whole lot of things. But then there’s also like this level of, of clarity by the time that they leave that room that things need to change. And there’s a willingness to actually start thinking about how that can change to achieve the results. And then, of course, Vision building days are beautiful.

Sheilah Hogan  22:02

Yeah, I love the physical changes I see in the room, when they kind of realize like, I’ve got really capable people in this room. And they actually want and have the interest to do things that I can’t stand doing. So it’s beautiful to see it. But it’s it’s a really heavy seven hours sometimes.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:24

And sometimes longer. I had one team I was actually working with. Yeah, we were there for a ran about I think it’s 11 or 12 hours. It was a long, long day. We we spent six hours on the accountability shots. I mean, it was and it had to be done. I mean, you know, we did I want to leave earlier. Of course I did. But no, we had to get to the outcome and six, you can’t without that. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. And of course, it’s always followed by the next two days, which are much more about the future and getting people on the same page and ensuring that we’ve got that plan to achieve that, that future goal as well, which I think is a lot more enjoyable for most people. But it also still has its moments, right, you know, those teams who have aha moments in terms of finally clearly articulating, you know, what those core values are and what their core focus is and what their big, hairy, audacious goal or tenure target is. And I love seeing those those moments.

Sheilah Hogan  23:13

Yeah, I think that people get to know the people they’ve been working with sometimes for five, six years more in those those days in those activities. And then it’s yeah, it’s it’s it’s a very big leapfrog forward of having the the important conversations, it’s the important conversations. And yes, are we all on the same page? absolutely not, we are absolutely not on the same page. And it’s great because that even that discovery is like, Ah, okay, now I can now I get why we’re all running different races, and we’re not running together. So that’s, that’s another aha moment when they realize that we are not on the same page. And it’s not a bad thing. It’s just a really big learning. Yeah. And

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:55

It’s an opportunity, because then you have a chance to actually deal with it. Yeah. Whereas often that that disparity lives inside people’s minds, but they don’t realize this disparity. Yeah.

Sheilah Hogan  24:06

Some, you know, I started my first journey was coaching executives and individuals and entrepreneurs. And I realized that that’s actually it’s a shortstop, it’s, you can absolutely enhance people in their competence, etc, and, and give them the tools but if they’re not doing it with the people they’re working with, the level of traction is just a little bit, stop, start, stop start, because there’s so many. And that’s why I love us is because the difference is your you’ve got a team and instead of coaching the CEO, or the CEO, and then trusting that they’re bringing it back into the business and doing it in a way that’s pure or just educational, is that it’s blurred, it’s very blurred so I you know, I no longer take those individual clients that are looking for the one to one coaching because I say you know what, the best gift you can give yourself is Do this with your team, real time. And let me let me do the heavy lifting and carry everyone through and you sit down, you sit down and be part of your team and participate and just, you know, follow and trust the process. But everyone’s we’re learning in real time, and they’re contributing in real time and then moving forward in real time. And that is the difference. And when people say what’s different to your, your business coach, like, I struggle with that. Because I’m not a lot of my my peers are like, you’re not a business coach, she will tell people that you work with teams, because that’s a big difference. And that’s what I think is a big differences, sharing the learnings being on equal footing. And not having that, that hierarchy in the room, and just being honest, and putting on table and moving forward together as a team. Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:50

I completely agree. I think it’s, it was it’s been really interesting with with some clients, so you know, they come into the vision board in particular, they kind of go, yeah, we’ve got our core values, we’ve got our core focus, we’ve got a plan, and then you actually go around the room and you ask, okay, great. So you’ve got nine core values, what are those nine core values? And nobody can actually answer it, or they can’t use some of the others

Sheilah Hogan  26:09

On their phone, or on their phone, and they read them aloud. And they go, Oh, I haven’t seen those in a while.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:14

Yeah. I was laughing. I had a team of 11 shareholders who came into one of the vision building days. And I said, they said, Well, we’ve already got a plan we’ve already got we know exactly what we’re doing. We’re on the same page. So great. Makes my work even easier. Let’s give it a go. So how many core values? Do you have nine? Okay, let’s go out there and got 11 People who are completely invest in this company, as shareholders, let’s hear those core values. And we got a three, you know, because they weren’t really core values. They were just almost like a tick box that we’ve done. Our tick box, we’ve got our core values. Yep. Next, moving on to it. And then they had this. We call it the tenure target. But it was it was a whole paragraph. And it’s like, how can you clearly articulate that have everybody in the organization all understand where we’re headed? So yeah, I love it, when we get those sort of aha moments, we can take all of that. And, you know, we don’t do anything but facilitate in the room, but the team, you know, basically distills it down to that real core essence of the business.

Sheilah Hogan  27:12

I think, you know, the one thing I always loved about revisiting, you know, The Five Dysfunctions, Patrick Lencioni, is that most of the times leadership teams are not working as a team. And they’re all very strong, they’re very successful and knowledgeable in their area of expertise. But they’re, again, they’re running their own race, they’re not aligned, and they’re not working as a team. And it’s very, it’s such a missed opportunity, because we know that if they all got into a room and started working together, and you know, rowing the boat from the same perspective, and understanding each other’s strengths and weaknesses, and how they could help each other. Wow, just that momentum you can achieve. So it is true, I think people get a little bit defensive. They say leadership teams aren’t always necessarily operating as a team. But then when you tell them what a team looks like, remind them. You know what, when we were on a team, there was not one person, you know, it’s the Michael Jordan and the coach that took you to the basketball team to 11 championships because there wasn’t one player, he was all about the team. So yeah, that was that’s always a reminder that leadership teams are strong personalities, and they’ve achieved a lot to get there. Then it’s relearning how to be part of a team

Debra Chantry-Taylor  28:32

And gain that trust together. Get together again. Yeah. Cool. So tell me, yeah. Do you have a favorite EOS tool?

Sheilah Hogan  28:42

Listen to me, like I said, I’m a big Fact Finder. So I’m a scorecard like I love. I love the scorecard. Because, you know, the truth is, in the numbers, everything else is a story. When you come into a room and you you know, the the the famous meetings of everyone goes around the table and talks about the reality is, is that’s really great. But where are the numbers? What are we? What are we watching? What are we keeping an eye on? How are we? How are we tracking? So for me, I’m always amazed when I come in to businesses, and they’re, they’re like, Oh, we’ll get the numbers from the accountant at the end of the month. And I go, Oh, okay, so what do we have even from last month, and they don’t necessarily have in an organized manner. And that’s not unusual. It’s really typical. But I can tell you that the reason back to the my big proponent of winning the Entrepreneur of the Year Award is because in 2006 2005, we at that point had opened four locations. So we were in New York, we had opened up la San Francisco, York, LA San Francisco, and we were about to open we were about to open in London. And it was really a point at which we were trying to make sure that we had a really great dashboard of activity. And I was like, you know, we should do this fun thing and have it like the floor of the New York Stock Exchange that we had these dashboards, these monitors in every office and every 15 minutes, it updated seven key metrics. So everyone in New York saw what LA was doing in San Francisco. And it was, it was like such a real time knowledge. So front of mine on what makes what is the most important thing that gets us where we want to go. It’s these things, it’s not that call. And it’s not this, it’s these seven things that matter most in the business. So we were communicating that to everybody. And they were all seeing what each other was doing. And that’s really what a big key factor that was that award is because we were in staffing. But we looked like we were operating on the New York Stock Exchange, because we had innovative business intelligence tools everywhere, just saying, Keep your eye on the prize. And this is what’s important. So when I saw the scorecard, I was like this in my language, like, it’s not just me. So yeah, that would probably be my number one is, that’s a game changer, like level 10 meetings are always the probably the biggest growing pain for clients. But the scorecard to me is what tells me they’re absolutely running their business and the business is not running. And it’s the metrics that are these the measurables, like it takes a while I’m sure you go through the thing and go, these are nice numbers. But does that really tell us is that a true indicator, if we want to get there watching this is that going to make a difference. And it’s really getting to the root, the root metric of the root measurable that says really, this is what’s going to be the the trailing indicator that will tell us that we will get to seven locations or we’ll get you’ll be we’ll be able to own that manufacturing, building. So you want to make sure that they’re just not putting numbers down to do their homework, because these are like out of the box numbers, accountants and CFOs will put down like, but that those aren’t trailing indicators to what we just said, we want to achieve in a one year and three years in 10 years, and making sure that their tie back the tying back to each other. So yeah, that’s my favorite.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:19

I love it. And I think you’ve been a really valid point, you know, often, they people haven’t got this stuff at hand really easily. And then they feel a bit embarrassed that they’ve been watching it, but it’s just about actually getting clear that you do need to have it and then working through it. And it can take, I don’t know, three to six months to actually get a scorecard that really works for you and really gives you the right numbers sometimes longer. So I think you know, even just taking the first step and getting something up there that may not be the right numbers gets you to start thinking about what are the right numbers? And how do we actually start to integrate those into the business? Yeah.

Sheilah Hogan  32:50

In the false sense of the false sense of false economy on revenue numbers, like, that’s great, but where’s the profit? And where’s the cost of sales? And what are you biggest where your margins and and that’s where they kind of go, oh, gosh, I don’t even know what our highest margin product is, and what our lowest margin and you start opening those, those ways of thinking and they they get why they’re working hard and not seeing the fruits of their labor. So it’s that that you start uncovering some false economies that are out there, which is but we did 5 million like but he didn’t make he made 7% profit. We can do better. Let’s let’s unpack this and let’s make sure that we’re watching you know, profit margins, costs and sales and the biggest hairiest you know, cashflow drags that are out there.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:42

And I think that’s the point too, is like, you know, it’s better to actually be seeing these and looking and finding these kinds of anomalies and going okay, what can we do about it rather than living in sort of almost cloud cuckoo land cutting? Oh, yeah, we got great venue. Yeah, we got great revenue and we didn’t make a profit

Sheilah Hogan  33:57

In that that terrible secret that it’s like but I’m still driving the same car I did 15 years ago and I’m paying my employees and there’s nothing left for me. That’s real. That is so real. And it’s something that they do not want to necessarily share or come to terms with It’s like no, no, we can change this this is this is the opportunity so that’s very real as companies in the right people that put their their people first and they pay them before they pay themselves and then but then they realize there’s not much leftover and you know they’re working really hard but there’s it’s time to work smart

Debra Chantry-Taylor  34:35

Oh gosh you know we could talk about when iOS tools I love them all but you’re right there in that level of team meeting scorecard. They all are absolutely game changers. And sadly, we can’t talk all day because we are on a podcast and we have limits which is sad but true. So we’re gonna have to wrap it up, but can you just give us you know, the three top tips I know you mentioned earlier, your first tip which was around never losing sense of your why your purpose? Yeah. What else do you have for

Sheilah Hogan  35:00

They come down to, you know, when it comes down even just what your parents used to tell you is, you know, you don’t know if you don’t try. So it doesn’t have to be perfect always say Good enough is good to go, just go just put shoe toe in the water would put in the water, you know, progress over perfection. And that’s, that’s, that’s the other one. And, and again, you can’t do it all. And you shouldn’t do it all. In fact, that’s not the most strategic approach. So, you know, when you find your courage or your confidence, which is low, borrow some, go seek it out, listen to a podcast to people that have gone before you. Listen to Deb series of podcasts, listen, read a book, talk to somebody, talk to a mentor or an advisor or seek out somebody and just borrow it. It’s okay. You’re not supposed to be able to do it all. So yeah, that would be my, you know, keep an eye on your why with the personal scorecard. Why did I do this? Why would I? Why would I move to another country when I’ve got a thriving business? Well, because this is what’s important to me, to us to our family. And that’s not that’s irreplaceable? So yeah, good enough, it’s good to go. You can’t do it all. Just make sure you share the load. And you know, have a personal scorecard that helps you keep an eye on your walk.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:23

I love it. Thank you so much. I love the idea of borrowing confidence as well. It’s absolutely true. You, you don’t have to you there’s many, many different resources you can tap into. And people are always really willing to help. So you know, reach out and just just let somebody know, be a bit vulnerable and say, hey, look, I’m struggling a bit here. Can you give me a hand? Especially someone has been there before you?

Sheilah Hogan  36:41

What would you do? What have you done? What would you do? What have you done in this situation? People loved to tell you the stories. And that’s how they do. And when you don’t have the energy or the confidence. It’s really nice to be following along someone else’s and get inspired. That’s awesome.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:57

Hey, great. Hey, if people want to talk more to you, because I mean, we know that you are absolutely passionate about Eos, you’ve got a lot of experience in terms of running business, you know, an award winning entrepreneur as well. How do they get in contact with you? And what’s the process for, for wanting to engage with you?

Sheilah Hogan  37:12

I’m all about a conversation. It’s, you know, 3060 or 90 minutes, so it’s just a matter of going to my website or my actually just email me directly. I’m very accessible. And it’s Sheila , sheilah@bxcollective.com.au. I’m sure it’ll be on your on your

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:36

podcast. Yeah.

Sheilah Hogan  37:40

But it’s all about just having that initial conversation. I’m not necessarily about a form. As much as I love technology. It’s really having a conversation and I make it quite approachable and easy and comfortable. But it’s it’s just starting with a chat and seeing what what you need, how I can help. And if it’s a fit,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:00

Love it. Love it. Okay, look, Sheila, always love talking to you. So please, we got to catch up in person, you know this couple of weeks ago. Looking forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your vulnerability. Thank you for your wisdom. Really appreciate it. Look forward to catching up again soon.

Sheilah Hogan  38:15

Thanks for doing what you do. You do it really well. Pleasure.