Success Strategies | Vinay Iswar's Expert Insights | Ep 133

Vinay Iswar  00:00

About relinquishing that sort of control and giving it to the people doing the work and being like, hey, where do you see risk? If you don’t see risk, or they’re just dropped that part of the process and all agree. If you all agree that it’s not risky, then drop it. Yeah. So we did all these things in our early years. So we took away anything that was non valuated. Okay. Yeah, I was, I was talking to someone who used to work for us on Friday night. And she was saying how she still has to document every single journal that she does, how really I trained her as a grad. Yep, I know, she doesn’t need to do that. But she’s been in the industry for eight or nine years. And now she’s required to write her journals. And it’s like, beyond ridiculous that you would have this person who does this.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:40

Hi, and welcome to another edition of better business better life. Today. I am joined by Vinay Iswar who was from bedico, which is one of our fellow New Market businesses just down the road. Welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me. Absolute pleasure. So we’ve been having a bit of a chat beforehand, just to get to know each other, we bid and say we’re in the same area in new market. And you just round the corner from us. I’m on George Street. That’s right.

Vinay Iswar  01:02

Yes. Just around the new market roundabout, just as you head to Panera. Okay,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:06

Perfect. So tell us a little about what it is that you do, and how did you get into business?

Vinay Iswar  01:12

So what we do currently is a bunch of things, but business advisory accounting and tax bunch of bookkeeping and financial control. How did we get into business? So how did I get into business? I always knew I wanted to be a business owner. Okay. I didn’t realize that the business that I was going to be in was going to be accounting. Yep. But yeah, I always knew it’s just I wanted to be a business owner, so I could run my own business. I didn’t never know what the business was gonna be.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:41

So but you are a chartered accountant. And so therefore, you obviously chose to do that a uni. And you’re actually working for another accounting firm at the time went?

Vinay Iswar  01:49

Yeah, yeah. So this is where the, the funny thing is, I remember the day I was walking down school, I was like, 14, and I was like, I need to be a chartered accountant so I can understand the financials. I don’t know why. I just assumed that if you were a business owner, you need to understand that day. Yeah. So I don’t know what made me think that if you understood financials, you could be a good business owner. So I just made that assumption, never asked anybody as a teenager. So that’s why I did my ca. Yep. Not necessary, because I wanted to be an accountant. Okay. And then the business just happened to be accounting.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  02:19

So tell us a little bit about how that happened. Because you were working for another accountancy accounting firm. And yeah, tell us the story from Yeah, well, I think the

Vinay Iswar  02:29

Thing was, when you as an accountant, you’re actually in this privileged position where you see lots of things, you see how people make money, see how they’re managing money. And you see all of the different ways. And we then it kind of gave us the confidence, what gave me the confidence to go and buy this rental property. And it was an excerpt of the property we just bought. And so I never owned any property, but bought one. And then like, nine months later, bought another one that was next door. I was like, oh shit, I don’t I don’t like losing money. But like, I need to do something. So I was like, Well, I’ve learned from other people to buy rental property, my clients. And then I was like, Well, lots of people have little side hustles, where they can make 510 20 grand. So let me do that. So started as a little side hustle to just make 10 grand so we could knit off the loss of the rental property.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:19

And that was you and your brother together. Right? Yeah. So see, you see it?

Vinay Iswar  03:23

No, he’s not a CA. So his background is like IRD. Banking, commercial. Yep. Everything that’s not the CA world, right? I had the practice experience. And yet the non practical was

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:34

Awesome. And so a little side hustle is supposed to make $10,000 a year, but it didn’t quite finish up like they did it.

Vinay Iswar  03:39

No, no, we ended up making about 40k in the first year or so. And it was all we did was just put it all back in. Because you know, yes, of startup business. Basically, it was well, we didn’t really even think of it as a business to be honest. Because

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:53

It was site also. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So just you and me in the beginning and tell us a little bit, because now you’ve got what 20 of the staff here in New Zealand a whole bunch offshore as well. Yeah, yeah.

Vinay Iswar  04:03

Yeah, I think it’s just about snowballing. You know, like, quite often, people get into business because they’re good at something. Yeah. And it snowballs, and then you just hire somebody else, like you try find someone else like you. There’s the right values. But we never had to do that because we had each other. Yeah. So we had each other and we had different skill sets. All we had to focus on was hiring someone who could do some work and teaching them. So that’s what we just kept doing and doing and doing and doing for years.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:30

So you must want it quite well, though. Because actually hiring and teaching people can be quite tough. Because you’ve got all this knowledge in your head and you know how you want it done, but trying to teach that to somebody else. How do you go about doing that?

Vinay Iswar  04:39

I think that’s the easy part. Actually.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:42

Most people might say that they wouldn’t agree with you. But yeah, because process is something that I think a lot of business owners, they’re very, very good in their own head sort of knowing what needs to be done but trying to articulate that to their staff. They can struggle with

Vinay Iswar  04:54

yeah, I’ve got a saying like businesses are run by people. Yeah, run by systems and processes. Then the people run the systems and processes. And we’ve always kind of lived that way. Right? And lots of people disagree with me. But I don’t think they get the fact that. Yeah, I agree that people run business, they have to You need people. But you actually need the people to follow a system and process so you can teach them. Yep. And they can follow something. And if something goes wrong, just go look at the system and the process and see what’s wrong. So I actually think it’s easy pilot.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  05:25

I think it’s a really interesting, we actually teach that NGOs in terms of you know, it’s all about systems and processes. But often people say, Yeah, I don’t know how to actually systemize that. And, and they want to go into huge amounts of detail and kind of it right down to the minut detail, which means you end up creating little robots rather than actual humans. And we don’t want robots we actually want humans who deliver the right outcomes, right?

Vinay Iswar  05:47

Yeah. And I think that’s the hard part in accounting. Yep. Because if you look at traditional accounting, there’s this big bloody checklist you have to follow. Yep. And every, every partner and a feminist just as a no as the next person. Right. And it’s about relinquishing that sort of control and giving it to the people doing the work and being like, hey, where do you see risk? If you don’t see risk there? Just drop that part of the process and all agree. If you all agree that it’s not risky, then drop it? Yeah. So we did all these things in our early years. So we took away anything that was non valuated. Okay. Yeah, I was, I was talking to someone who used to work for us on Friday night. And she was saying how she still has to document every single journal that she does, how really I trained her as a grad. Yep, I know, she doesn’t need to do that. But she’s been in the industry for eight or nine years. And now she’s required to write her journals. And it’s like, beyond ridiculous that you would have this person who does this.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:38

Yeah. So we talk about document and simplify. And I think that’s what you’re talking about, isn’t it? You don’t need to have every single process in there. It’s more about if you know, you’ve got the right person who shares your values, you know, that they’re living by those values. They know what outcomes they have to achieve. And they’ve got the basics of the of the process, then they’ve got it made, right.

Vinay Iswar  06:56

Theoretically, yeah. Yeah, I think so. But they have to also buy into the vision of the business. Sure. The company, right. Yeah, that’s probably the only thing that’s missing here is like, yeah, once you’ve got there, all that foundational stuff, they still need to believe in something. And I think that’s where we’re lucky. They they believe in this growing business, our team believe in this growing business and always have done Yep. And I think that’s that kind of extra curricular thing that they get to do week to week that a lot of other other accountants and other bookkeepers and business advisors and different, like our competitors don’t have that luxury. Yeah, they’re already set. Yes. Or they

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:33

Have a legacy system. Yeah. Okay. So when you first started employing your first employees, how did you find the right people?

Vinay Iswar  07:42

We, what did we do?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:45

Time ago now, wasn’t it? Yeah.

Vinay Iswar  07:47

I remember we interviewed about four or five. I remember in those days. We were startup. Yep. Like crappy office, like, you know, one or two computer each is like very basic. Yeah. So it was that was hard. And so I think we only had four or five of people apply. And we hired one was actually yeah, we hired one. Yep. Is a funny story about it. I don’t think she would love

Debra Chantry-Taylor  08:19

To tell us tell us that.

Vinay Iswar  08:24

She was 19. And I think at the time, yeah. But she was she was traveling from Auckland City to only what by bus. And she would take a sandwich have a sandwich for lunch there and work there. And then boss back. She wasn’t getting paid. She was just an unpaid intern. And I thought that was like, quite awesome to see someone who’s putting in their effort, right? Yeah. As a 19 year old. No family here. No support base. Yes. That’s pretty awesome. Yep. And then she was working across or near us after that. And like a second job came to us for lunch, and the lunch break for the interview. And then she sprinted back. We watched it from the window. She sprinted back, took her heels off and sprinted right up Khyber Pass, and we saw her go into the office. And she was the one that would get the job done purely because there was two things here. One we had seen about that responsibility, like getting back to where you need to be. Yep. And then the work ethic of going all the way to Aruba. Yep. By bus and having a

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:22

Free. That is awesome. Yeah, that’s amazing. Okay. And then as you’ve grown, obviously, your teams got bigger and bigger and bigger. How do you find stuff these days? Like, what do you is it has the process changed?

Vinay Iswar  09:32

Versus definitely change? Like I’m, I’m always recruiting, if that makes sense. Like, we’re always working on our brand to make sure that we’re we’re attracting the right talent. Yep. Because that I think there’s a part that people miss a lot. And when they’re trying to build a business, they don’t understand that part of marketing is attracting talent, or part of recruitment is marketing. It’s kind of hand in it. Yep. So we’re always doing that. And then whenever we put ads out, we do get plenty of people coming in. See, that work starts before you need people.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:04

It’s funny one of my friends Warner actually has like a long notepad and every meet somebody who really likes your lectures, make a note of them. And then he’s always looking for when he can potentially find a role for that person in the business. So he’s got a little, maybe old fashioned, but you know, a little notepad of people that he has connected with and thought, yep, these guys are really good. And then he’ll go on approach. Somebody’s ready to employ.

Vinay Iswar  10:23

Yeah, we used to do a similar thing. We just have this folder in our HR folder, and it’d be like Target stuff. And so people that we might have met, or have sent their CV and say, Hey, I would like to work for you. But then we’ll just put it in that folder. Yep. That’s Yes. low tech enough to Yeah, that’s what it would be like, ah, you know, six months ago, we hired one person, but that person was great. Go back to it. Yep.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:45

So you’ve done a phenomenal job. And as I said, you’ve won a whole bunch of awards for the Newmarket Business Awards, Westpac Business Awards. Did you always know what you wanted to do? Like you seem quite driven. You seem like you know, you’ve always been a very good business. Have you always known what the future looks like? You’ve had a very clear picture from the beginning.

Vinay Iswar  11:02

Not in terms of business. Okay. I don’t think a lot of people think that businesses like the beard and have, like life in general. Yes, I know, like, business. Sometimes it’s a means to an end. Yep. You know, like, you got to understand why you’re in business. Like I’m in business, because I like working with people. I like teaching people. So that fulfills that need. I’m also really good with numbers. And I love money. I love making money. I love looking after I like and seeing how it works. So I’ve always liked that. So I get to do what I enjoy every day. Yep. But I’m never going to forget why I’m trying to make money and all of that either. Like I’m trying to buy freedom, like buy options, you know, you know, when you you come from nothing, you kind of have that drive, you know? Yes. Need more?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:49

Yeah. And so what is the ultimate goal for you? What does it look like in terms of that freedom? Like what would you like to do more of if you had more time?

Vinay Iswar  11:58

I play more golf to you, and I think that’s like the sort of my goals is yours probably won’t go for summer.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:06

Are you part of the the pod? What’s it called the group on PA? Yeah, I

Vinay Iswar  12:10

Said to mark the other day, you want to throw it on post on LinkedIn. I was like, oh, man, I can’t make it on the 26th. Because I think it’s this week. Yes. We’ve got our own work function networking session this week, so I can’t make it. But I’ll join the next one.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:22

Yep. Perfect. Okay, so we talked about, you know, doing what you love with people you love with time to pursue other passions. And I think that’s a really important thing. I think your podcast kind of talks that to write one life. Yeah, it there isn’t business life and then personal life when you’re a business owner? In fact, I for most people, that probably isn’t either I think it’s very much about finding what works for you. And provide you’ve got time to do that was other things, then that’s, that’s good, right?

Vinay Iswar  12:46

It has to be good. I mean, everyone, whether you’re in business or employment is should should think about one life. Yep, you should think about, okay, am I am I giving my whole self to work? And am I giving my whole work self to home, almost like, I always talk with my wife about what’s happening at work. My wife always talks about what’s happening at work with me, yes. And it really helps kind of debrief for someone else who’s not involved or emotionally involved in what you’re doing. So lots of people leave those things at the door, and then never talk about it. And I guess from a work perspective, or a business perspective, if my people don’t tell me what’s going on in their personal life, I can’t be compassionate, or empathetic or all of that, like, why you got a resting bitchface today or like, why you’ve been such a dictator? Like, yeah, you don’t want to, I don’t want to have those thoughts. But if I knew what was going on, it would be much easier. So we are Team are quite transparent. Because we’re, we don’t have offices, we don’t have doors. You run kind of knows each other. If someone hasn’t smiled all day, we will. Someone will ask you

Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:50

What’s going on? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So has it always been plain sailing?

Vinay Iswar  13:56

No, never. Never.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:00

The reason that I asked that I asked all my guests is, you know, when you look at social media, it can be really easy to fall into the trap of, you know, everything’s unicorns and roses. and wonderful and easy and lucky. You know, I just started my business. And now I work on a beach and barley. And it’s all really great. But personally, I haven’t found that in the businesses that I’ve run. And I’ve had some great successes, but also some great failures as well. And it has not always been that beautiful S curve that we get taught in university. So yeah, tell us a bit about the tougher times. Yeah.

Vinay Iswar  14:27

I mean, I always say that, like, you choose your heart. Yep. Everything is hard. There’s nothing easy in life. So you choose your habits, whether this hard or that hard. So I mean, business owners generally choose things that are a little bit harder. I think the hardest thing for us was when we did a merger, and then within 12 months, we d merged. So trust me, that was probably the hardest time I’ve had in business. Yep. Yeah, it was. It was tough.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:51

So without going into details, I mean, like so a merger. I always say to anybody, if you’re taking on board investors or you’re merging and acquiring businesses, it is like a marriage right? You’ve got to go into it. Understand thing, what each other is like, what the values are, what the long term goals are. And sometimes you can go into it, you know, completely open and think everything is okay. And then it still doesn’t work out. So can you tell us a little bit about what happened? We’re not going to specifics, of course, because we’re gonna get in trouble here. But I mean, what? So what happened to you? I

Vinay Iswar  15:16

think it was almost exactly there. Right? Right. We have the same rules. Yes. Like I always teach my clients you follow a dating engaged married model, looking at any new merger acquisition, bringing in another equity partner, whatever it is, yeah. So we kind of didn’t really follow our own advice for long enough. I always say a year, year and a year, or, or a year, six months, three months.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:39

So that’s what dating engagement marriage.

Vinay Iswar  15:41

Because you want to go on a date for longer than, like, a lot longer than you want to be engaged for? Theoretically,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:50

Because I’m not sure I did that. But anyway.

Vinay Iswar  15:53

You gotta want to get married really quickly, if you know it’s right. Yeah. We we did Oh, very quickly, right. And then we’re almost running before we were walking. And, yeah, it was. It was like, you know, when that happens, and you’re in a new relationship, and everything’s really exciting. Like, literally, everything’s exciting. There’s no bad things, guys. Yeah. It’s just fantastic for months and months and months. And then you go, Hang on someone, look at the numbers. Someone look at whether we’re aligned strategically for this year, next year, the following year. There’s just a few things just weren’t lining up. So it just also we were, we were slightly younger. And we had longer to go to be right or wrong in business. If we were wrong, our time would correct itself. And so some of the things didn’t align because of that. Right. And we didn’t really want an excerpt. And so we decided after 10 or 11 months to do the do that do a demerger, we had to you know, go to the board first summit. It was set on a board hated it. Well loved it initially. Yep. Because it’s extra responsibility and all this extra stuff. You got a chairman? Yeah. Sometimes you need that. And then sometimes you don’t. Yep. And we didn’t. So we decided to de merge. My most stressful time ever had. My wife was pregnant, eight months pregnant. Had to make the call. And we got it done. Yep. We got it done to the point where I think everything was signed on like the 31st of March and on the 23rd of March 20. We, when we went into the

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:43

Very, very fondly, yes. Are we back to the office? All right. Yeah.

Vinay Iswar  17:47

Okay, that day, the 23rd of March around grab this stuff. Yeah. Went home. Yes. And then a week later

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:52

Was almost emerged. Which actually quite nice in some respects, isn’t it? Because getting divorced and then moving moving countries never see them again?

Vinay Iswar  18:00

Yeah, and then we will work from home for four months because we had an office right? Yep. Okay. By me because baby was born. Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:07

So obviously worked out in the long run in terms of with the merge now and we’ve moved on and and both were doing whatever you love. I’m interested your wife does. Is she an entrepreneur to

Vinay Iswar  18:16

Know she’s would I think? I don’t know if she would want me saying this, but I don’t think she loves business. Yep. She loves the she loves being a small opponent a bigger, bigger ocean. Yep. So she works in corporate. She’s a governance advisor. She’s done some cool stuff in Parliament, and she’s been in council now. She’s a waka Kotahi. She works with some cool people much smarter than me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:42

Isn’t it so funny though? Because I mean, if you think about it, it sounds a bit like myself. And my husband’s my husband’s an actuary. And so a bit like, you know, and I’ve worked in government too. But you know, that said, the one of us is big risk taking sort of seeing the big picture. Yeah, we’re very happy. We’ve kind of almost fly by the seat of our pants. And then there’s the other side, which is very, very measured and risk averse. And

Vinay Iswar  19:02

it’s strange, but it’s you either have opposite attracts or you about the same? Yeah, yeah. So we know that we’re very much opposite attracts Yes. And we constantly learn. So recently, we’ve implemented StrengthsFinder gallop strings. Yeah. And so we’ve done done it at home. And we were just comparing our 34 strengths together on the weekend. Oh, yeah. What she’s refused to do for months. Oh, really? refused even though she’s done the test. And we’ve got it. And we ran through them and we literally pull opposites. Wow.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  19:32

Yeah, but it works. But it works. Yeah. And I think that’s why it works. Yes. Yeah. Completely agree. Okay, so you said do you do go home and have a chat to her about business? Oh, and she’s quite happy to listen to to your day and vice versa.

Vinay Iswar  19:46

I think I do too much talking. So she probably

Debra Chantry-Taylor  19:52

What’s been the biggest kind of lesson that you think you’ve learned throughout business? Like if you had to go back to your younger self and say, Hey, before you go into business This is what I would do if I did it all over again.

Vinay Iswar  20:02

Yeah, I think you have to be you have to understand why you’re doing it for for both work purpose and personally, yep. Okay, it can’t just be about money, right? You have to understand because you can start your first business and it’s not necessarily going to be the business that you’re gonna end up with. So you got to understand why you’re doing it. Because you might just build a, an A might be a stepping stone to the ultimate thing. So you can build a business for a couple of years and then sell it. Yep, it could be the right thing to do. And if you plan that two or three years in advance, that would be the smart thing to do. So I think first thing would be to understand why why you’re doing that first business in the first place. Yep. Could be the Learn. Could be to get some cash. Yep. It could be the first cash cow. It could be the foundation to grow everything else. Yeah, definitely do that.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:47

Just want to ask a few questions there as well, though, because, um, we often get told, you know, you got to do the stuff that you love in your business, but often your first business or second business, necessarily, yeah, no. But it gets it gets put out there a lot. Doesn’t it bandied around a lot, you know, do follow your passion, which is kind of interesting, because my husband’s a musician, really, and that’s what he loves. But that’s not what he wants to, you know, run a business on. It’s just No, that’s right. It’s

Vinay Iswar  21:09

the worst thing in the world. Yeah, I have a client who loved cars who became a mechanic qualified. And then he realized he hated working on other people’s cars. Yeah. There you go. You know, yeah. I don’t necessarily love doing accounting. But guess what, it enables me to do all the other things that I liked doing. Yep. So I’m following my passions outside it. Oh, my nine to five. Theoretically.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:32

I agree. Cool. Okay, so for work out why you’re doing it. First of all, that’s the first step. Yep. What else?

Vinay Iswar  21:40

Really important to get marketing? Right. Okay. Right. So that’s why the purpose comes first. And then your marketing is a little bit easier. If you don’t know your purpose, marketing is incredibly hot shot really hard. So get good marketing and but understand what marketing is. So marketing is not a logo, and it’s not a website. Marketing is getting a brand, right, understanding what brand awareness is. And then coupling all of the things next to it, like social media, what’s your website? Which advertising? What are your sales? How does that attach to it? All that so understand marketing, and then actually put some time and money into it. Without it, you’re just not going to give enough attention to attract the sales that you need to grow a business. It has to be marketing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:25

It’s interesting isn’t because I think that in New Zealand, there’s a lot of number eight why mentality which can be good from an innovation perspective, in terms of looking at different ways to do things. But I also find that a lot of businesses do things themselves, because they think they’re kind of saving money, and they don’t want to spend the money. But it actually can be detrimental content,

Vinay Iswar  22:43

Where you either pave for growth in time or money, right? Yep. So if, if you’re doing it by yourself, you’re just saving money, but you’re just costing yourself because you’re giving up money later as well as paying it in time. So if you have the money, I would argue, spend the money. Yes.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:59

Well, it’s all about return on investment to isn’t it? I mean, I had this argument people all the time, but it’s so expensive to have that kind of advertising doesn’t matter if it actually returns more than you actually invest into it. And you feel that that that ratio is correct. What does it matter what it costs? Because you can buy cheap advertising? There’s nothing?

Vinay Iswar  23:15

Yeah, yep. But also, it might just be what you need. Yes. And if it is what you need, and you you need it, you should if you need it, you should use an expert shouldn’t be DIY. Should you someone who knows how to do it? Yep. If you want it, then maybe you could DIY and do it on your own bloody time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe during the weekend or something. But if it’s a need get an expert,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:38

Completely agree. Okay. We also talked about just outside around, one of the things you said that you wish you had done earlier was to hire more experienced people, right? The beginning, right. Yeah. Which is a chicken and egg scenario, isn’t it? Because it’s like, actually, when you’re in a startup, you can’t necessarily afford to employ huge expertise. But what do you think about that now?

Vinay Iswar  23:59

Yeah, I think it’s, it’s not just hiring people who have more capability, but it’s hiring all the gaps. Yep. So that we went without administrative stuff for years. Like I’m say, I reckon at least five or six years. And now I can’t do without it. And I don’t know why we ever had that mentality. Because when we were starting out, it was actually the cheapest resource. And accounting, like the accountants cost more, they produce money. That’s fine. But if, if we had to hire one or the other, so rather than hiring a really good accountant, and not having administration or having administrative stuff, and doing more ourselves, we didn’t do either. In the middle. Yeah. And you end up with these like juniors or intermediates initially, but then you like I said, before you pay in time because you’re constantly teaching them. Yeah. So it would have been smarter for us to hire more senior people who could deliver work. Get away without the administrative stuff in going then use that money to go in later hire administration. So sure. So hire for capability and do a little bit more, but then fill the gap with that extra money that’s coming in and fill it quickly because you’ll pass these high performers off.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:15

That’s right. Yeah. Interesting. I was gonna ask another question. It’s completely slipped my mind now, isn’t that terrible? Mind? Oh, yes, nobody was I just remember sorry. It was a random. So we talked about outsourcing. So you have got, you’ve got local based people, and you’ve got outsource people, which is definitely the way of the future, right. I mean, that’s where most businesses work these days. But there was always a choice about where you go offshore to get to these various people. And we were talking outside about, you know, you can go to India, in the Philippines, you can go to some of the African countries have a whole range of different places you can go to, what do you think is that the main difference between the two main ones would definitely Philippines and India, wouldn’t they?

Vinay Iswar  25:52

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things we’ve found over time is that it’s, it’s not just about jurisdiction or country, right? Yep. So you can have the conversation about India and Philippines. But what what we should be having the conversation about for businesses that are looking to do it is, are you looking to outsource to a third party? Or are you actually looking for offshore employees? Where you can actually put your time and energy into and grow them? Yep. Just like everybody else? Are you looking for that? Yep. Or are you looking for cheap resource, you can just throw stuff out, throw stuff out, get them to do it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:24

And they’re not necessarily bought into your vision or your values? Or theirs? They’re just a Do I know the name?

Vinay Iswar  26:28

Because they’re the organization might be so big, that you might just have the manager and that’s all the person you deal with? Yeah. So we have both. And my preference is that we were all in one big team. We knew everybody’s names. And it was just, we’re talking about we’ve, you know, been that word outsource. Yep. It’s just disallow employees. They’re just offshore. Yeah. We could have them in Hamilton, for example, we are in Auckland, it shouldn’t be any different.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:58

Right? So how do you how do you and go to people who are offshore though it’s a different dynamic? Isn’t it a mess, but different? I mean, I guess we’ve we’ve all got a bit used to it with with COVID. And not necessarily working in the office day in day out. But there’s still a different dynamic when you’re actually dealing with offshore people isn’t.

Vinay Iswar  27:15

There is a whole different dynamic. I think it starts with the employer. Yep, you got a so what I mean, we’re learning every day. But one of the things we’re doing is we’re trying to do everything for them that we do here. So when a new employee starts with us, they get an induction pack. So we made sure that they got to the Philippines with a T shirt and a bottle and all that sort of stuff. So they immediately buy it. Yes. And then when they’re at home, they’re washing their bottle or whatever. And then their families have fallen, right? Yep. Oh, my God, they give you a bottle. Oh, you got a uniform? Kind of, you know, yeah, yeah. So there’s that you gotta you got to do as much as you can, over there offshore that you do locally? And you’re you’re that much closer?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:54

And how do you ensure you have regular meetings with these people as well? Like, what? What’s the sort of the meeting structure? Or how do you keep them engaged?

Vinay Iswar  28:01

Yeah, that’s the toughest part. And I think that’s why you need some sort of middle management locally. There’s just no way I’d be able to give, give someone offshore as an employee that I want needed to put time and energy into, I just don’t have the time. So we, you have to have management here has the time to do it. I don’t think it’s fair to ever hire anybody and not give them somebody who has a lot of time to teach them and train them.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  28:26

Yeah, we talked about the fact you know, they need resources. They need technology. They need it, but they actually need time more than anything else. Yeah. I’ve been guilty of it myself. And you know, in terms of employing assistants, and then been so busy that haven’t had time to really show them the ropes, which is really unfair. Yeah, yeah.

Vinay Iswar  28:40

It’s, it’s worse when you hire people who are really good. Yeah. And I mean, everyone’s been really good. I mean, like, they cost a lot, right? Yep. And then you say, Well, if that person was crap, or whatever, like, did you even teach them anything? Or did you just assume because they were on six figures, and maybe sometimes even like, 150 160 180k? Yep. And it could be like some project manager person. And then you say, Oh, they were crap at the job. What did you teach them the way that you guys? Yeah,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:05

yeah. The back to the process is right. This is where we work around. What we kind of expect this what we’re measuring you on, these are the outcomes. Yeah. Okay, cool. So tell me what’s your what kind of clients do you love to work with? What’s your ideal client at Petco?

Vinay Iswar  29:18

For us, it’s, it’s all about people who have enough problems for us to solve it for they will see value in our services. So someone turning over roughly a million bucks, has some stuff, maybe five, five staff. And either in a industry where they understand really well and they understand their business well enough, and then they’re not. They’re not requiring us to build their business for them. So they need to because they’ve got

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:44

an established business that they know what they’re doing, but they’re this they’re feeling a bit stuck, or what would why would they come to you? They don’t

Vinay Iswar  29:51

have insights, for example. Yeah, they like reporting. Yes. One of the main reasons in New Zealand why people move accountants is because they get texted prizes.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:01

Yes. Really still to this day still

Vinay Iswar  30:03

to this day. Wow. Every time we have a new client meeting, so why do you want to move? 123? Yeah, definitely. Take surprise, you would

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:11

Think with you know, the likes of Xero and MYOB. Online, the ability to look at your figures day in day out that there should be no surprises surely.

Vinay Iswar  30:17

Well, that’s that’s exactly what customers say. Yeah. They say that to us. And we’re like, Yeah, but that’s even not even how we do it. Right? Do you really think I log into almost? Like, I don’t? Yeah, my team don’t, it won’t even do that. And this is a reason to go. So we actually have a tax planning process. And we actually provide it as a separate service. If you don’t have it. That’s on you. Yeah. Right. But we actually say we have it as a product or a service.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:45

Yep. And then you can choose to have it. Yeah. Okay. And really, as you said, it’s about the data, as it says, It’s all very well having that stuff available to you. But really, it’s about producing reports in a timely manner that as you have information that can help you to make the right decisions about the business. And I think probably bookkeeping as they keep everything from a legal and governance point of view intact, but they’re not giving you the insights into what you can do with your business to

Vinay Iswar  31:07

Yeah, like bookkeeping, sometimes people think about it. This is like data entry. Yep. And it can be, but we’re good. bookkeepers would actually go and see data as they’re putting it in. Yep. And they would go How do I give this business owner insight with a static PDF or something. So if it’s like a profit and loss, one of the good things we do is, for every business, we will customize the chart of accounts. So they can see all their different new revenue streams, all the different costs of loans, we might make up some codes, you know, someone might be spending a whole bunch of money on other flowers. It’s like, a flower put a flower line. Yeah. Who’s but bookkeepers and accountants can get really annoyed at going off, but that’s not normal. You know, but it shows trends, right? Who cares of us not knowing Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:57

It’s really funny. I mean, I’m not an accountant by any stretch of the imagination. But I have I’ve worked with the ice has many years. And I was done coaching for many years. And I remember, when I first set up my kind of zero accounts I did, I wanted every single line in there, because I wanted to see what was actually going on. I want to know, from an income point of view, where is the best what not only what revenue is coming in, but also what’s most profitable? And where are we spending the money? And where are we kind of, you know, wasting money. I think that’s really important. And yeah, so I remember, like I saw clients come in the only line that would have was income

Vinay Iswar  32:25

Income, this is the worst. But what does that mean?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:28

How do you know what is going on in your business? Or expenses? The funding, there’s five main categories that they were having, though, it’s like, how can you tell when that goes really over? Budget? Well, what is it? Why is it going over budget? Yeah,

Vinay Iswar  32:40

Everything was was zero and whatnot. These days, you can add not just new codes, but you can have

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:45

Subcategories. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And you can then expand it out here, as it says, like annual recurring

Vinay Iswar  32:49

at the top, yeah, monthly recurring, then one half and ad hoc. So we can see, and we value each section separately. From a valuation perspective. Yep. So every month our report comes out. Theoretically, we can value the company. Yep. Not many businesses can do that. Yeah. Because we get our reporting, right. Yes. If we expect it for our own business, we try to give it to our clients. And I think that’s what the directors are really good at it. Because knowing what’s valuable, and going, we don’t really care what you’re saying, we’re going to do it for you. It’s gonna take another 1520 minutes, right, just like, just love it, and work it out later, you know? Yeah, it’s like giving away a little bit. So the client gets better insights, and then better insights. They get us to do more, you know? Yeah. Sometimes you just gotta give it a little bit away to get a lot more back.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:38

Just to show them what’s possible. Right? Yeah. Okay. And so you’ve talked about the three kind of main areas that you have. So you’ve got the the business advice, which is all kinds of things and mergers and acquisitions. You tell me better than I can what what are you doing the business advice side of things, what Mergers

Vinay Iswar  33:51

Acquisitions, we do lots of business planning. We do like ad hoc coaching sessions, we might do organizational reviews, where we manage to figure out where all the people are and where they should be and differentiate, differentiate where all departments and roles and responsibilities are. And then we might go into more sort of numbers advisory, which is like a budget or a forecast, or tax structure. And then you get into the more mundane type of accounting and tax type stuff. Which for me, personally, a lot of it’s not mundane. You can add value, like a lot of value. If you’re giving you’re using that information to give clarity to the client, and it just gives them confidence. Right? Yeah, once things are clear, they get confidence. And then the final thing we do is bookkeeping. But we try to attach again, a finance process upfront. Yes, it’s like we’re not gonna do bookkeeping, this as a process. Finance process and then we’ll add in some technology, so get all those foundations right. And then we can do and then also, if they want us ever not do it, we just give them the Process Nice. Yeah, I can hire this person internally if they like. That’s fantastic.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  35:03

Actually, that’s one last thing is gonna ask you, you talked about, we do marketing early on branding and whatnot. So you’ve actually gone through both having an internal brand person or marketing person I should say, and then actually outsourced it and brought it back in house again. What what are the what’s the difference between those two things for a business owner? Like why would you recommend it’s worth when is it worthwhile having in house marketing and when isn’t it?

Vinay Iswar  35:24

I think it’s always worthwhile having it. Okay. Yeah. Personally, I like if, if you can afford it, and it’s big enough, and yeah, and totally, you just always depends who you are like, I’ve, I did marketing in uni, and I have a love for marketing. So naturally, as a business owner, I want to do more marketing. So I want someone to bounce my ideas off. If you hate marketing. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that’s still a reason to have someone until you can pass it off. To them. Yeah. You probably need how you’re going to grow that person. So you probably need an agency, they can bounce your ideas off. I don’t think it’s fair to just let them know that. Yeah, personally, I think in house is always the preference. Yep, you’re just gonna get better value for money. And your, your business should be better off for long term because the person will understand the business better. Yes. I think that’s not always the case, when the business doesn’t have so many variables, like if, like, our business has so many variables, it’s just done. That’s why accountants can’t scale their businesses. They’re just bad at it. Because we have so many variables. But if you don’t know, if you sold three tires in your tire shop, you could outsource outsource your marketing quite easily. Yes, yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:37

And you still do outsource marketing, don’t you? So you don’t do it all in house, you have helpers as well as your in house marketing person. And I guess that comes down to expertise, or where it makes sense for somebody should be involved in it.

Vinay Iswar  36:50

Well, particularly those right now. It’s not expertise. It’s time. Right? Okay. Yeah, cuz he’s our marketing manager. He’s our head of marketing. Yes. So he says the strategy now. Yep. Without help. But we’ve previously had like low level marketing internally to manage the day to day, right. And had other agencies handle the big stuff. Yes. So you can do it both ways? Yeah. Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:15

It’s our preference. If you could do it any way from the beginning, what would you do?

Vinay Iswar  37:18

All of it in house?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:19

I love it. I see what you want a marketing accounting agency.

Vinay Iswar  37:27

Because all of our clients need marketing. Yes, we’re very easily just open a bit of CO marketing next door, and we’d probably make more money.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:38

Watch the space. I gave it hey, look, I’ve been really, really great to talk to you. If somebody wants to get in contact with you. What’s the best way to get ahold of you?

Vinay Iswar  37:47

Google bedico, advisory or bedico, Accounting and Advisory. You’ll find us so we’ll have a different podcast channels. We’ll find out Instagram, everything will come up there Facebook, but good old fashioned. Just pick up the phone and call as soon as you Google my name. Google bedico. You’ll you’ll get all the phone numbers and just call one of us.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:05

Fantastic. I look thank you so much for coming in today and thanks for your time. Thanks for having me. My pleasure.