Next Level Leadership: Insights from Cameron Ogilvie | Ep 112

Cameron Ogilvie  00:00

But actually having a system to get to that vision you can have people with some people love data. Some people love process. You know, some people are really good at organizing their organization. But unless you have it all, unless you can put it together, you miss part and then things fall over and you go back into that day to day grind of just making do, you’ve got to be able to click it almost simultaneously at the same time. together to get the full power out of it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:29

Oh, and welcome to another episode of Better Business better life. Today I am joined by fellow EOS implementer, Kevin Ogilvy, who is based in Sydney, Australia. Welcome to the show Cameron.

Cameron Ogilvie  00:40

 Hi, Debra.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:40

Good to have you here. So we’ve just been having a bit of a chat before we go came on live and other person hearing little bit about Cams background. And I didn’t realize that a camera actually came from a family business. And so I spent many years working in that family business. Would you mind sharing your story cameras, so you know what you did? How you got to be in that and then why you’re now an implementer?

Cameron Ogilvie  01:02

Sure. Well, after university, I left and went straight into banking and finance and work there did my time in London and came back and found out I was I was not enjoying being a small cog in a in a big machine. So I jumped out and into the family business, which was importing and distribution of confectionery in Australia, and something that we had done for 20 years prior. And so I started in the business and worked my way up, eventually taking it over and being the CEO and running it and then exiting it last year to become an implementer. Okay, that’s a short version.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:45

And so what was your role in the family business?

Cameron Ogilvie  01:48

Yeah, so I started off in sales and became a sales manager. And then and then I took over as managing director overseeing the whole company and the direction and the staff within it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  02:02

Okay. And you told me, you shared with me that, you know, you came across Traction, sort of almost by accident, by listen to a podcast and hearing about somebody who was using this Traction system. Tell me about why you chose to implement that in the business.

Cameron Ogilvie  02:17

So the, you know, I’ve always been obsessed with personal development. And it’s something that was passed down to me from my father. And so learning and is a big part of who I am. So I’d listen to podcasts and listen to books. And when I was rapping, I’d be driving around the country. And instead of listening to the radio, just listen to these books. And I was listening to a podcast and the gentleman just happened to mention Traction. Just like it was a one liner, I practice Traction. And I wonder what that is. And I downloaded it, and I listened to it, and I read it, and I loved it. And what I loved about it was, up until that point, I had done several different operating systems, like I tried to go game of business by Jack stack. I love the guy, Fern, Vern Harnish, with the Rockefeller habits, I’ve been on a university course for high growth companies. And you know, it was all the same stuff kept coming up and up, again, again and again. And I tried to implement it in our business to reach our full potential, with the management team and within the business as a whole. And for some reason, it just kept falling over. And, and what I found was, every time it fell over the staff, they just got a little bit jaded in terms of trying something new. And so here we go again. And when I when I came across Traction, I knew that it was the distilled essence of all of those great books. And so I thought, I’m going to I’m prepared to have a crack at this. And so we, we took it on, and we implemented it into our business. And, you know, it just took off like the we just started to get that connection between the vision that I was putting out there, and then the actual execution within the business. And so it just started humming and humming and humming. And that’s how I got into into Traction. and

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:29

I’m really interested, because I mean, you would have been. Well, you’re aware of the role of like a visionary and an integrator and that sort of thing in the business. Before you came across Traction.

Cameron Ogilvie  04:40

No.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:41

And is it fair to say you were the visionary in that organization?

Cameron Ogilvie  04:45

Yeah, I’m good at talking.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:48

Good at big ideas, good, that kind of thing, sometimes crazy ideas, but they actually move the business forward. And I think you just made a really valid point, right? So we had this really strong vision, but for some reason we can’t translate it into What it means for the people on the shop floor or around the organization. So what you’re telling me is traction actually gave you the tools to take that high vision and bring it down to the ground in something that was tangible for people in the business. Is that fair?

Cameron Ogilvie  05:13

Yeah, absolutely. It also, I had heard, like, I mean, on those other the university course that I went on, the lady who runs it’s a professor, and she’s the smartest lady I’ve ever met. I don’t know if I can say her name or not. But it’s Dr. Jana Matthews. And she runs the University of Adelaide Business Growth program. Fantastic lady, and was really good. I walked into the first meeting with her and she took one look at me, and she said, You’re my bright, shiny ideas guy. And I nearly fell off the chair, because she had just read me, like a book in 10 seconds. And that was my first, you know, awareness of these roles between a visionary and integrator, and I didn’t really understand it in those terms. You know, people look talking about a CEO and a CEO, etc, in the in the labels that we put on the role. But that’s where I started to develop the concept of where I was best fitted within the organization, and what was my unique selling skill set. So yeah, Traction definitely gave me the tools to bring sorry, EOS book gave me the tools to bring the vision down to the ground, and execute on it. But I think that as a, as an individual, it helped me to see more clearly how I could fit in what my unique ability was, and, and how I could best serve the organization. And one of the things that John has said, and, and the book talks about is being disciplined in your thoughts, you know, not taking on every idea as a guy that has 20 ideas before breakfast, 19 of which are not terrible, terrible ideas. But the being disciplined in in saying what are the good ideas and having a filter for them, and they’re not sucking your team’s energy away from what you’ve already set them to do previously? So not distracting the team and keeping disciplined and focused on on that vision that you’ve already laid out and said, so, so. So Eos, there was a lot of for me personally, it’s, it’s the framework with which you looked at the business was was, was clarified.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:26

And it just simplifies things down. I think. I mean, you as you said, I mean, there’s some great books out there scaling up Rockefeller habits, great game of business, they’re all really, really great. But sometimes they’re just a bit too complex. And I think that’s possibly why they fall over is because it just is too much all at once. Whereas what I what I loved about EOS was a very, very simple framework, that visionaries like yourself, and myself can kind of take and get Yeah, okay, it’s, it’s enough to give me a little bit of structure. So I’m not kind of, you know, zigzagging all over the place, but still not too restrictive. And in terms of curbing our natural entrepreneurs.

Cameron Ogilvie  08:03

Yeah, and I think the bit that I really liked about it is that there’s nothing river revolutionary about any part of the of the, the book itself or the tools, it’s actually the power is in clicking the pieces together, and completing the circle of what you’re working on having that system when we call it the Traction execution on a day to day basis against that vision, but actually having a system to get to that vision, you know, that you can have people, some people love data, some people love process, you know, some people are really good at organizing their organization. But unless you have it all, unless you can put it together, you miss part, and then things fall over and you go back into their day today-to-day day grind of just making do, you’ve got to be able to click it almost simultaneously at the same time together to get the full power out of it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  08:58

Yeah, that’s absolutely true. And I think you just alluded to, you know, that, that, that the beauty of it is that when you do things like the accountability chart, you’re actually also giving people the ability to see where their unique ability is, and really work within that space, which often especially in in smaller businesses or fan bases as they grow. People are used to doing sort of multiple tasks and being involved in the whole part of the business. But in actual fact, there’ll be something they really love and they’re really great at and that’s where they should focus.

Cameron Ogilvie  09:27

Yeah, I mean, I love to use this analogy that businesses like a jigsaw puzzle, being a business leader is like being doing a jigsaw puzzle, but there’s no rules in business. So you’re actually the artist painting the picture on the jigsaw puzzle and you’re assembling all of the pieces at the same time. But the funny thing about it is your actually one of the pieces you’re putting into the organization as well, right? And you know that that time and place where you get that piece and you see what it looks like and you kind of see its colors and you know its edges and Go, maybe it could go here. And maybe it could go there. That’s like ourselves, right? And you put yourself in a peak in a place in a small business because you have to do that work. But it doesn’t really fit. It’s a continual process of then you got to say, Okay, actually, that’s the wrong piece for that place, I’m going to put another piece in. And then it clicks in perfectly. And that’s like, when you surround yourself by good people and the right seat, the right people in the right seats is like putting those people in those places. And it’s a constant process of moving yourself into the best place for the organization. But you’ve got to move yourself to what you’re uniquely good at. If you try to do if you’re a visionary type person, and you try to do finance work that’s, you know, methodical, and it’s a recipe for disaster. Yeah. And so yeah, that’s the that’s the magic.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:45

Yeah, no, I completely agree. It’s really interesting, because, you know, you said that you tried a couple of other distinct different systems, and they fell over. And I hear this all the time with the clients that I work, I’m sure you do, too. And then they they do a US and actually, it does work. It is really, it’s very simplistic, they actually tried to get the results from it. But how did you deal with your staff who will probably kind of go, oh, here we go. Again, Cam Cams got another stupid idea or another crazy system he wants to put in place? How did you deal with that with the team?

Cameron Ogilvie  11:13

That’s a great question. And I could probably answer that the best now that I’ve actually been implementing EOS has probably learned from, subsequently why it worked. And it’s because we take, you know, when we teach, you know, as we take attraction, first approach, we teach the tools that get the ball rolling within the organization, before we go and sort out that vision component or clarify the vision, because often the vision is there, people, people have it somewhere in a folder, and you know, the owner knows what it is in their head, and but it’s getting them to do the weekly, the weekly meetings and, you know, the 90 day rocks, and what’s important now, and staying focused on that and accountable to doing those things. And so in my business, I followed that I did that first. And and so we got the benefits of, you know, I was at the time running, but as the CEO, I was also the sales manager and, and in the sales meeting, I’d be having a weekly meeting, a level 10 meeting and keeping people accountable to what they said they were going to do, and doing the rocks every quarter. And, you know, probably took about nine months before we sort of started to set rocks properly and priorities properly for the next 90 days. But when they when the staff knew that every Monday at 9:30, that we were going to be going through what the priorities were and how they were going against it. And what the scorecard was, the behavior started to shift because they were they were paying attention to the fact that these priorities weren’t going away, and that the shiny ideas guy wasn’t going to get distracted by a new shiny idea. And so they got on board with it. And and and then they saw results. And then they owned it and went beyond my expectations in terms of what they delivered. Yeah,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:11

You’re absolutely right. It’s kind of part of the reason I fell in love with the US myself as well was that we, I used to work at the Ice House, fantastic organization. But we would always do these great big kind of vision building days where we talk about the vision and the mission and all these things. And then everybody would leave that room really, really motivated, and really excited that they got back into the business and nothing had changed. And therefore nothing ever got done. Because they weren’t you know, they got distracted by the fighting fires. I love the fact that with Eos, we do. The first part is not the big, like 60 kind of vision stuff. But it’s actually like how to put tools in place that really make a difference. And I can see why a team buy into that because they can start to see that. As you said, we’re not getting distracted by the things. We’re actually sticking to things for a reasonable amount of time. We’ve got some focus. And of course we’re measuring results as well, which is important. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So what was the what was the best tool or the most favorite tool, if you like, what’s the thing that had the biggest impact on your business?

Cameron Ogilvie  14:05

Oh, yeah, the weekly meeting pulse. And the rocks, the 90 day, the 90 day when I went on the university course, we did lay out an annual plan. But I didn’t tie it down to the 90 day plan particularly well, I didn’t tie it down to the nitty gritty of what we had to do now and for the next 90 days. And then the second thing that worked really well within that was the accountability piece of the weekly to dues. You know, when you’re sitting there in that sales meeting, and you’ve had something that’s been outstanding for three weeks in a row, you could see people squirming and so they started to get it done. And in getting it done, you know, you started to get rocks done and you know, and then it led so that traction component was the weekly meeting pulse was was just fantastic. And then the rocks because I already had the annual plan and what we would lay out for ourselves on an annual basis, but just that, just the Traction part.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:11

I completely can see that. And so what difference would it make to you personally? Because it obviously, it helped the business, I understand that. But how did it actually affect your yourself in terms of implementing EOS?

Cameron Ogilvie  15:28

Gave me a lot more confidence. You know, I think yeah, we talked about Jim Collins, he’s just my, I’m a fanboy, I went and watched him live, I was in the third row back, you know,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:47

I’m not quite gonna say that I

Cameron Ogilvie  15:49

I didn’t want to say that. Absolutely. Would have been thrown out if you saw my underwear coming out. But he talks about in, in his in his books. The you know, the Great by Choice is my favorite one, we often talk about Good to Great, but Great by Choice has some great analogies in it. And he talks about, you know, companies that exist in volatile markets that are going up and down, and how I looked at businesses, for the 2025 years that I was in running businesses that, you know, it was like a roller coaster ride. The business was, it’s always up and down its successes, and then adversity. And I could not believe what came our way it was one step forward, two steps back two steps forward, one step back. You know, we overcame, you know, COVID was just amazing, we had ransomware, we had to go through succession planning, you know, in the ransomware was like the whole company shut down one weekend, and we basically had to boot the whole business up all of the data, everything, we had to find it and put it back together was crisis management. And, you know, and so, you know, over that time, I just became used to the fact that you had to deal with adversity and deal with the roller coaster ride. And I think that the confidence I gained in terms of understanding the the time in between the vision, and then the rocks, and the attraction is that you could deal with anything that you were confronted with? And how do you deal with it? Okay, well, COVID Now we’ve got the next 90 days, what do we have to do, you know, we have to reduce our hours, we have to talk to the staff, we have to, you know, get supplier terms extended, we have to get, you know, the customers to tell us what they’re going to do in terms of their ordering. And, you know, these are the these became the important things in this quarter, that may not have related to the 10-year vision, but you had to deal with now. And then you could have a week by week, you know, check off that you’ve done those things. And it just meant that, you know, you could move really, really quickly if you were confronted with one of those issues.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:22

Because you were clear on what you were, where you were headed and what you’re trying to do.

Cameron Ogilvie  18:26

Yeah. And you had the tools to you know, how to manage yourself to do it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:32

Yep. Excellent. Okay, so you, you decided to lead that business, and then now you’re doing EOS as a sort of full-time thing? Why? Why did you choose to do that?

Cameron Ogilvie  18:50

Yeah, I said earlier that, you know, my passion is like Ted law. So and so I started helping my mentors, sorry, I started mentoring some of my friends who are in business, and I just loved it, I was, we’d have a weekly chat, and we talk about the tools and what I learned and you know, and I have this broad knowledge of business books and theory, etc. And I’d pull facts from different places and, and they would really, they’d really appreciate it because I could give them that somebody to talk to that understood, you know, the roller coaster ride that they were on. And I had this diverse knowledge base, and I was doing it myself. So there is it resonated with them, and they started passing me on to their friends who actually were paying clients, so I would charge charge them and you know, and then I thought, well, actually, you could be quite good at this. And I was listening to the you know, we talked about that, you know, the piece of the puzzle, right, where you start to see what colors you are and you have to know yourself or how do you know yourself is that you listen to To the signals that are out there, you know, what, what do you love to do? Where do you get off? Where do you get energy from? And, and I started listening to the signals because I’d come off the phone call with, with the with these coaches, I guess. And they would my wife would say, Have you been talking to so and so? And? Yeah, I have and she goes, you only see flying you just so energetic, right, like, you know. And they were their signals that said, Okay, well, there could be something there was there could be something else out there for me beyond where I am today. And I guess, I, the way I would summarize that was I think I almost felt more excited for their success than I was for my own success in my own company. And we were going great. So that was, that’s a big deal when you when you really take a moment to contemplate that. This yourself that this is a part of who you are. So that was like that was an inkling to the change.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:00

But like an aha moment.

Cameron Ogilvie  21:02

Yeah, it was, it was exactly that. But obviously, you’re in your current environment. And, you know, where was I in my current environment was that, you know, we’ve we’ve implemented Traction and part of EOS and part of the EOS is, you know, you deal with underlying issues. And, you know, I went into my company, and my business partner, and I had a different skill set, and we’ve had a different base. And we, we just want to, well, we just had a different viewpoint on where the company should go, or how it should go. And there wasn’t anything wrong with his viewpoint, there wasn’t anything wrong with my viewpoint, but we couldn’t, it was just a different viewpoint, you know, they were both good business strategies, right. But the failure to choose between the two of us, because we’re trying to keep each other happy, meant that the staff would come to us with issues of, you know, I need half a million dollars of marketing budget to get this arranged in Woolworths or, you know, and then another staff member would come to us and say, well, I need this for this packing job, and we need to buy a new machine. And that’s going to cost half a million dollars. So but you’ve only got half a million dollars, you can’t spend it in both spaces. So you tend to straddle the decision, right. And therefore, the staff weren’t getting the results that you’re asking them to get. Because there was no direction wasn’t there. Really a choice what the choice wasn’t made. And it’s but it’s hard to see that. You know, when you’re in the business, you know, it’s very hard to have that perspective. Because you’ve been remember, this is like a 20-year boiling frog kind of a situation, right? Where you, you’re working, you’re working, you’re working and things are going great. You’re making money. And it’s very difficult to get yourself out of that box and have a look at it. Clearly.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:59

It could be fair, this business was going really well. I mean, you went from being because of a small family business to be in the what the second largest confectionary importer in Australia. Is that right?

Cameron Ogilvie  23:09

Yeah, privately owned, you know, there was some there are some big companies out there, but you know, yeah, it was really

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:14

Not like you were sitting there just kind of chugging along, you’re actually doing really well. So that must have been quite a difficult decision to kind of go hey, what am I what I do now?

Cameron Ogilvie  23:23

Yeah, and it came down to the fact that I looked at it and I said, you know, I can be comfortable here for 20 years, and I can be very financially well off and I can live it live a good life. But that aha moment that we were talking about previously was you know that energy that you feel when you’re in it, like you knew you really It sounds a bit sounds a bit wonky, but that you know, in your purpose or in your in your sweet spot, and you know, so I just said you’ve got to make a decision, Cameron, you know, do you want to how do you want to live your life and I just said to myself, I don’t want to turn around when I’m 65 and go I could have been a coach I could have been an implementer and I could have lived this spent the last 20 years helping people achieve their dreams and their goals and see the power of getting on board getting on the same page and getting traction against that vision and doing it in a healthy way. And so it just came down to a decision I think that you normally start with what are your personal and professional bests, which we missed. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:29

We did. I was going to come back to it. I had it written down. Yeah. So yeah, what are you what are you most proud of? Because you’ve done some pretty amazing things. Tell us what your professional personal best is?

Cameron Ogilvie  24:38

Well, my personal best is I had a holiday last week and I had a beach holiday just before winter and it was very nice to get a surfing. But where was that? Up in Coffs Harbour Yeah, it’s just warm enough to you know, as you get north but the professional best, you know, and I keep reflecting on this under proudest thing, the thing I’m most proud of is the fact that I made a decision to live a life on purpose. And to go through that process with my business partner, and he looked after me, and I looked after him, and that, through that through that negotiation process, which so it ended well. But it’s the decision in the first place, that was the most difficult thing. The process is hard of selling a business or executing a business. But the hardest thing is an individual is actually just making that decision to go and live, you know, because it’s, it’s scary. There’s uncertainty, you don’t know, I don’t know if this EOS implementation thing works. When I’m sitting as a CEO of a business, I don’t know if people will receive me the same way as they receive, you’ve got the experience now many years, you know what it’s like, I don’t have that. So you stepping into the unknown? And so my professional best is just taking the courage to make that decision

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:02

Yeah. And I think it’s something you won’t regret, I’m sure. I mean, certainly, we know from an EOS community, I mean, all over the implementers of all run businesses, that’s part of the requirements for being an EOS implementer. And I think there comes a point where you know, you you’re ready to, to help more than just people who are in your business. I know, I love it, I love, still run a business still have some things going on, but enjoy the fact that I get to help others as well. And I know that it’s not just about business either. So for me, this whole podcast is about the fact that I want people to create create a better business, so they do have time to pursue other passions. So they are doing what they love. You know, it really is about having that better life. Yeah, exactly. So you’ve been doing this now. So you how long did when did you start as an iOS implementer? Back in late last year, wasn’t it?

Cameron Ogilvie  26:47

Yep. Late last year? Yeah. Seven months or something like that.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:51

I’ve been working with with various clients and things, any stories you’d like to share around the the EOS journey so far?

Cameron Ogilvie  27:02

I, I’ve been surprised at the I guess the not the difficulty. But the it’s a difficult, it’s a simple thing, but it’s not easy. Okay. And you get any you get in the room with people and you know, it’s a shift in the way that they think. And it’s a shift in the way that they do things, their habits and their routines. And that’s, you know, it’s quite a, I wouldn’t say violent, but it’s a significant shift almost immediately. Because you don’t, you don’t have the certainty and the confidence that it works. You know, you’re trusting what I tell the people, they’re trusting me that what I’m saying is proven. It’s a proven process, and it’s going to work for you like it’s worked to other people, right. So you get in that room with them, and they’re listening to you. And I know from experience that it works. But they but they’re having to learn it, and then they’re having to shift everything that they do. And that’s there’s a lot of energy in that there’s a it’s, I’ve got a lot of respect for the people that commit to the process, because it’s not easy. But you know, the results are there. And I think in terms of in terms of stories, or the thing that I’ve enjoyed the most is the the way that I like to describe it. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a chiropractor? Yes. Yeah. So when you get your back cracked of the car, or you might have had a crick in your neck, and you get your back cracked, and for me, it’s it’s almost instant relief, okay, now, it doesn’t mean that the muscle is fixed, it still takes a few more goes and the muscle relaxes over time and eventually is fixed. Right. But that instant relief is what it feels like when I’m in a session room with my, with my clients, and they they go through this difficult process of you know, talking and self analysis and and then, you know, they start to they start to clarify their organizational structure, and then they start to identify their issues. And then what are the things that we’re going to focus on in our rocks, and then they see a way of doing, you know, good keeping themselves accountable to it. And, you know, you come out of it at the end of the day. And people, it’s always the same remarks. It’s like, I just feel so much better. I just feel like I know what I’ve got to do. I can I know what we’re what lane I’ve got to play in, you know, and, and that’s probably been the revelation for me. When I was coaching before I left CTC, I was doing individuals and it would be great to help an individual but they would walk back into the business and the business would be the same way. When we coach the leadership team, you’re coaching a group of individuals that are looking to help themselves shift together, and it’s so powerful. And so when they come out of that room, it’s like they’re in it together and they’ve got that they’ve had they’ve been in Cairo collectively. And it’s that relief.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:06

I think it’s a great analogy too. Because you know, when you go to the chiropractor, how many times you’ve been there, there’s still always that little bit of fear and sort of, you know, because they’re gonna crack you, right? That’s, uh, you know, it doesn’t actually hurt. It’s not a comfortable feeling. So I think yours is a bit like that too, because you go into the session, kind of knowing there’s gonna be a little bit of uncomfortableness. But then once you get past it, as you said, things can then start to move forward. And that’s, I love the analogy. Awesome. Yeah. So tell me, who is your ideal client? Who do you like to work with? And why?

Cameron Ogilvie  30:42

Well, I’m fairly new. So I’ll take anybody. I say that I say that with a caveat, though I do know that you’ve got to be ready. Okay, mentally. You know, in my experience, I had been through a lot of pain and tried a lot of things beforehand. So I was ready to, you know, give it a real red hot crack. And so the client has to have that willingness to grow. And to go through that pain, they’re more concerned with not, they don’t want to stay with the status quo, they want to move forward in some way. And I think that that’s a, that’s a as a as the, from the leadership perspective, from especially the principal. That’s, that’s a non negotiable, they’ve got to be you can’t want it more than them. Yep. And I think from from a company perspective, you know, I, I enjoy family business, I think that there’s a real personal connection to what you’re trying to do and achieve within a business. I’m motivated by helping the company prosper. But by doing so, if you take an average of 30, our target market has tended 250 employees, right? So take an average of 30. If we can, if I can help Tina Turner and 50 companies to, to to improve their prosperity, you’re actually helping the seven and a half 1000 people, but not only are you helping those seven half 1000 people, you know, you’re helping the four people, family members, on average, that they would have as well, right. And you say you’re helping this by making these businesses prosperous. You’re helping all of these families and, and people live better lives. And so that’s incredibly motivating. So family businesses important because they have that connection to the people that are working for them. And the wider community as well. And the wider community. And and yeah, and then from a from a, from a passion perspective, obviously, I’ve got a great food background, and Finance, Financial Services, already, you know, my friends at work in financial services. So there’s, there’s a lot of leads coming from there. But the food background is, is fantastic. YeahW

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:01

We obviously share quite a few similarities. You know, I’m a food scientist by traders, you know, and I, I actually love family businesses. And I think I love it, because, yeah, I love the fact that they are creating sort of wealth for their family and their wider community. But I also find that sometimes by sorting out some of the business issues, it actually helps with the family as a whole as well. Because often, you know, as a family business, you tend to end up doing things that maybe you don’t really want to do, but you had to do, because you were there. And, and you know, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on that makes the the having the normal family barbecue, a little bit tense. And if you can actually alleviate some of that, and they can go back to being a tree family. Again, I think it’s a double win.

Cameron Ogilvie  33:41

Yeah, absolutely. And you know that that analogy is that, like, when you’re in a family business, I see this all the time, you tend to move the organizational chart or the accountability chart around individuals, because you get good individuals. So you move everything around the people in the organization, but you have to go the other way around, you have to take a structure first approach, because people change and what people are good at, if you it’s like a jigsaw puzzle that you can never put together because the pieces are changing in their shape. You know, so you can’t win that way. You have to take the structure and then find the right people to fill them. And you know,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  34:25

I think for family businesses a year is gives you the permission to do that as well because I think often in a family was it’s hard to have those conversations about whether or not Auntie Uncle, brother, father, brother, sister, whatever might be, you know, should be there. Whereas if you use the ELS as a framework to guide you, and you’ve got something to almost blame so it’s you know, it’s not me that wants to not have you doing this role, but actually this is the right thing for the business. It gives you that ability to, to call things out.

Cameron Ogilvie  34:51

Yeah, I mean, exactly right. Exactly. Right.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  34:54

Okay, so I always ask for three top tips and given that you have got, you know, a wealth of experience So in running your own family business and coaching others and running us as an implementer, what are your three top tips for people listening?

Cameron Ogilvie  35:11

Number one would be to rip off Stephen Covey, you got to start with the end in mind, you got to keep the end in mind all the time. You know, to paint that beautiful puzzle, you’ve really got to sketch out the image first in your mind, and then put it up, put it down, right, you might not have the details, but that will come with time. We tend to, and I did this in the early years of the business, we tend to want to start from today and improve and move forward to be better tomorrow, okay, or be better than last year, grow, develop, okay, one step at a time. And that is very effective. It’s a you know, it’s, it’s, there’s a lot of successful people that have done that. But it’s not as you can waste a lot of energy doing that it’s far more effective if you begin with with the picture in mind at the end. Okay. So you so you got to begin with the end in mind. The second thing I’d say is, you know, you need to have a system to make that picture a reality. Okay, like when you do a puzzle, what do you do you start from the outside, you do the edges, then you work your way in, you look at the colors. Yep, yep. And then you go down to shapes, and you do it a little chunk at a time. So when you, when you when you push out to that 10 year thinking, Okay, you got to come back to three years, one year, 90 days, and then just work on the puzzle one week at a time, and have that system in place where you’re constantly working towards that, that that vision. And as I said to you earlier in the conversation, that that’s the piece that I missed, how to how to, I can have a vision, but how do you bring that into reality? And that’s a have a system to do that? Yep. And then the last thing I’d say is, you’ve got to know yourself, okay? If you think about that piece, that’s you, you can stare at it for hours. And in knowing yourself, I’d say listen to the signals. Stay humble. Swallow your ego and put the organization above yourself. You know, we can we can sometimes identify ourselves as the business owner, as opposed to say, well, if what’s the right thing for the business, and if you’re if your unique ability is to be sales and marketing, and you should get a general manager in to run the rest of the show. It’s so, so much more powerful of those other people can supplement your skill set. But it takes it takes, you know, being humility and swallowing that ego to do that. And lastly, with that, I think, you know, just make a decision. Even if it’s even, it’s the wrong decision, you can make another decision. But you got to keep moving forward. As a leader.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:07

Absolutely love it. And I thought what was really interesting was listen to, you know, the fact that your wife could tell what was energizing you, I think sometimes asking other people to kind of give you some feedback as well, because obviously, she could see when you are in your unique ability, and you’re loving what you’re doing. And so if you can’t see that yourself, it’s okay to ask other people to help with that.

Cameron Ogilvie  38:28

Yeah, but you know, one thing we say in this in this triad, so now that is, be careful what you wish for, because my wife, my wife has said, has encouraged me on this path. And now we have, she has to have a level 10 meeting with me every week. So be careful what you wish for.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:50

Yeah, you’re a little bit step ahead of us. I’ve my my partner, my husband, Steve, he’s not quite so entrepreneurial. But he is starting to pick up on things like IDS thing, and just generally, it starts to become part of who we are. And so he’s doing that. And we have put together a bit of a familial kind of VTOL. So we’ve got some sense of where we’re headed and what we wanted to do and what our values are. So yeah, it certainly does take over every part of your life.

Cameron Ogilvie  39:14

I don’t know if it’s sad, or we should celebrate, but it works.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  39:19

It’s all for the greater good. I’m all for it. I can’t it’s been an absolute pleasure to have a chat to you. If people want to get in contact with you. What’s the best way to get in contact with you?

Cameron Ogilvie  39:27

Yep, to reach out through LinkedIn, Cameron J. Ogilvie, or to contact me on the OS website through my email address would be great as well. Fantastic. Hey, cameronogilvieieosworldwide.com

Debra Chantry-Taylor  39:40

We’ve got the longest emails Haven’t we minds like a dot Chantry hyphen Taylor. It is well, fine. If you’ve got an EOS world wide look on the implemented directory look for Sydney. You’re going to find Cameron there. And of course, Cameron J Ogilvie on LinkedIn as well. Cam, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing. I will look forward to seeing you again in Sydney soon. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Cameron Ogilvie  40:00

That’s great, thank you so much.