EXPERT SPOTLIGHT - If it's not working in the bedroom... with Adam Harris - Episode 30 of Better Business, Better Life!

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:12 

Welcome to another episode of Better Business Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry-Taylor. I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams get what they want out of business and life. On the show, I invite successful business owners and expert speakers to share their successes. They are open and honest about the highs and lows of business and also life as a business owner. We want to share those learnings with you to inspire you, but also to help you avoid some of the common mistakes. My hope is that you take something from each of these short episodes that you can put into action to help you get what you want, not only out of your business, but also your life. So good morning, and welcome to another episode of Better Business Better Life. Today I am joined by Adam Harris, who is now a kiwi but originally from the UK like myself, and we actually met because Adam was on a similar kind of EOS journey to myself and he’ll tell you that story. But he moved to New Zealand for a very specific reason, so he’ll tell you that as well. Adam, welcome to the show. Lovely to have you on board. 

Adam Harris  01:11 

Thank you. Great to be here. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:13 

Yeah. So you have a really interesting story, don’t you because you kind of uncovered EOS and got involved with that. And then it led to you actually moving to this side of the world. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about that story? 

Adam Harris  01:24 

Yeah, so I’ve been a leadership coach, consultant, facilitator, you know, all those kind of buzzwords. Predominantly, I challenge people and create space in your environment for them to grow themselves in their organisations. One of my clients, this is going back now probably about eight years, had come across Traction. I’d been coaching him as the CEO, and also the senior leadership team. And he said, we’ve tried lots of different things and actually, we feel as if we want to move forward with EOS. I’m like, ‘What the heck is EOS’ and that was before the book came out. And he said, ‘Look, just read the book and tell me what I think.’ And I was like, wow. I’d written and published my book by that point, The Checking Strategy Journal, and I just kind of looked at EOS and went, oh my god, this is just.. a.) the simplicity of it that I loved, the second thing is that it was the ability to be able to dilute and change the whole organisation. So I think a lot of the time is that the language and the speak is very high level. But to get kind of, you know, Joe in the warehouse, to be able to understand the terminology in the methodology, I think there’s always been a bit of a challenge. And then kind of the third thing was, it was the consistency, the cadence of meetings, the accountability, etc. So I was like, ‘Look, if you want me to help you facilitate, I’m more than happy to do so.’ So I was learning on the fly. Absolutely love it, it helped me develop as a coach and as a facilitator. So that kind of then started a journey of just, you know, as often as I do, I kind of got a big, I’ve always had a big tool bag, and I’d be sitting with clients and go look, not sure if you’re interested, but I’ve just done EOS. ‘What’s EOS?’, then you go down a story. And then so you know, in total, over the years, I’ve helped implement about 25 different companies. In one of those companies, a former co-chair of mine, was really interested in kind of doing EOS and everything. And she said, ‘Look, you know, I’m really thinking about being an EOS implementer.’ I was like, cool, go for it, go through the training. She says, but I need a company to kind of do a bit of a testbed with, I’m like, hands up, somebody’s offering to give me some support and help. So we as a business went through the process. And when we were kind of looking down and setting the 10-year vision, one of the things that we decided was as a family and one of our overarching things in the business, is the business of the family. So everything that we do is about creating the money and the opportunity to stretch up, to stretch ourselves. So we set ourselves the 10-year vision of living a nomadic life that kind of sat on a bit on the back burner. And at the time, my daughters were 11 and seven. And we kind of got to the stage where we decided that we wanted to try and do something new and we were actually looking at the south of England, kind of a Montessori or a Steiner methodology of education. Both myself and my wife are educators. And that’s kind of fortuitously how we then started kind of the New Zealand journey so I saw some flights come up. So hadn’t, I’ve got family up in Whangaparaoa now north of Auckland, so haven’t seen them for a while these flights come up. We came over Christmas time, leaving Christmas Day. And then while we’re there, we’ve kind of remembered why we were looking at moving to New Zealand, we nearly did about eight years ago, before my wife got cancer. So more flights came up, I was like, okay, well, let’s book a flight for, you know, for my wife, and my eldest to come back and look at the schools. And then in between, we then found out about the Green School, which is here down in New Plymouth, very much around experiential learning. And it was like, kind of, you know, the universe kind of just plays and gives you these things. And then we finally moved here, December 19^th. So, yeah, very, EOS has been a big part of my life. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  05:45 

Yeah, I can see that. And so how are you finding a New Plymouth, 

Adam Harris  05:49 

It’s quite different to what I’m used to. I was only saying the other day, we don’t really spend much time in traffic, which probably shouldn’t tell too many Aucklanders that. So yeah, we’re quite far out the way, we’re not a throughput town. So you’ve really got to, there’s got to be a reason in the decision you want to get here, which, in some ways, kind of leads us to be kind of a really best kept secret. Life here is I mean, you know, five minutes down to the beach, never lived by the water before. So I’m really loving and enjoying that. And it’s been challenging. So I think the aspect of you know, with anything new, comes, excitement and anticipation. And then kind of when that’s kind of settled down, there’s kind of almost this realisation of okay, I’ve got a sense of loneliness and isolation, and that’s been kind of exasperated through the pandemic, and kind of just navigating through new and different thoughts and relationships, etc. Last year has been challenging. There’s also been an aspect of kind of leaning into that, from a growth area perspective. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:59 

Yeah, I know, you’ve got some great clients down there that you’re working with now. What is it like from a business perspective, in New Plymouth, 

Adam Harris  07:06 

Ah, interesting. I found culturally, business in New Zealand. Different. And, you know, we were talking before we hit the record button that the language, verbally is the same as that actually, culturally is very, very different. I had anticipated it was going to take some time and effort to, to understand the nuances. But it feels as if sometimes you’ve just got to start from ground zero. And I just kind of got to the stage going, right? Okay, look, I can only do, I can only be who I am. I can’t pretend to be anybody else, because everybody else is taken. And then all you do what I do best, which is connect people add value, and just spend a lot of time listening, and asking the right questions at the right time. And what’s happened over, you know, over the time since I’ve been here, is you just build and things just kind of germinate and grow. And then all of a sudden, you kind of sit back and go, ‘Oh, okay, I wouldn’t have done that a year ago, not because I didn’t want to, but maybe I wouldn’t have necessarily been accepted.’ Yep. And, you know, things don’t just start kind of happening. And I’m an opportunist. I’m an entrepreneur. You know, I see, you know, I see from, I see it from the visionary perspective, and I also sit from the integrator’s perspective. And that ability to kind of be able to do so, I think, has always stood me in good stead to, to listen, observe and learn and adapt accordingly to the situation. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  08:51 

And that’s kind of where Frank and Fearless that’s come, I assume, from that journey that you’ve been on while you’ve been here. 

Adam Harris  08:58 

Yeah, so my business for many years was called Fresh Mindset. And you know very much about twisting the kaleidoscope and allowing people to kind of have a different view and a different perspective. You know, part of that was around, you know, giving ourselves permission. To go through that, I kind of what I found was for the first kind of nine to 12 months, I spent a lot of time listening. And it wasn’t necessarily just about being here in New Zealand, actually, it was some kind of a global perspective, but then from how I’ve been working in operating, and I kind of just got to the stage of kind of going, you know, there’s a, I’m not necessarily being true to who I am, I need to speak up a little bit more, I need to be a bit more Frank and Fearless. And I’d started writing a book about five years ago called Frank and Fearless, how to have focus, flow and fun. Specifically in the boardroom, but from a wider perspective around, we take things so seriously and actually, we’re not having the right conversations with the right people at the right time, whether that be first and foremost with ourselves. Second of all, internally, but actually, as importantly, from an external perspective, I was just finding that I was having a lot of conversations with people and just thought, you know, what, now’s the right time to just kind of rebrand. And I wanted to be able to differentiate me and the people that work with me as to this is who we are and what we’re about. So kind of the narrative, yeah, but also from an aspect of qualification, to kind of go look, if you want to work with us, that’s great, we are slightly different and a little bit nuanced. This is who we are, this is what we’re about, if you want to engage great if you don’t want to re-engage even better. And actually, that has allowed to ensure that we’re having great conversations with great people that want to move themselves and their organisations forward. And that’s all I want. I don’t really want to waste time on navel gazing conversations, I think for me, you know, it’s great to just have, you know, really intellectual, challenging conversations. So if I could spend more time doing that, and less time wastage, and actually become more productive. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:24 

That’s really key, isn’t it? It’s interesting, because obviously, in the EOS way of doing things, we talk about the niche and what your target market is, and for a lot of people, they go down very much the whole oh, they’re this age, or this sex or this industry. But in actual fact, a niche can come down to the way that people think and feel and how they behave. And I think that people seem to discount that a lot of the time and just go, well, you know, I need to pick a specific industry. I think it’s very much about attitude. You know, I’ve got an elephant sitting next to me for the same reason as you, it’s like, if people look at the elephant and sort of think quite frankly, what the fuck as you do with an elephant, they’re probably not going to enjoy working with me. So tell me a little bit more about your EOS journey, the stuff that you did with EOS? And what are the things that you really got out of that? I know that it was beautifully simple, it was very much about getting people all on the same page and being able to work through the layers? What are the kind of the key things that you found in the businesses you worked with? 

Adam Harris  12:24 

Yeah, so and, you know, as I’m sitting there, reflecting, I’m wondering, I’m wondering if one of the reasons why I got you know, Frank and Fearless has become so prevalent is that actually, you see interesting, the elephant in the room, how many times was I, even before EOS, you know, my challenging style, is, I come at it from a word called care-frontational it’s a bit American, and a bit cheesy. But there’s an aspect of around, you know, as a facilitator, my role is to create the space and the container, but then be able to pick up on pick up on the energy, pick upon the things that are not being said, the subtleties that are around. And actually for me, EOS just actually just enhanced that a step further, because the process married with my style. So what it allowed me to do is just to turn around and go. So Deborah, you don’t believe that he gets it? Well, what makes you say that, what just tell me more, just explain, so that the process that we were, we were going through just allowed that kind of enhancement. And I just, I was just finding that, you know, there’s just, there’s so much good stuff, there’s so many good people, there’s so many great companies that actually miss out, because there’s a level of, there’s high levels of complacency. There’s little levels, I don’t even think it’s just accountability, I think it’s a lack of inertia. You know, there’s so many, so much assumptions that are being made. And actually, you know, when you can walk away as you as I know that you do, and I do is that when you walk away from an intervention with a with a client, and you go, fuck me, I added some value today. You know, not only you know, and I get a huge amount of buzz and energy from that. You know, I from a coaching perspective, I’ve always lived by the mantra that if I’m, if I feel uncomfortable, I am playing in exactly the right space because I know that if I’m not prepared to go there, then nobody else will. And it’s kind of like, you know, that’s where I could probably get my kryptonite from is that and it’s not about making people feel uncomfortable. It’s just about having those right, right conversations. I think the other thing is, is that people hold on to members of staff and members for far too long, and taking or allowing and helping, you know, organisations and individuals to understand those emotions, and to, you know, understand, you know, and there’s been times when I’ve had to be really blatant, and kind of go, right. Okay, get your wallet out on the table. And I will literally take cash out of somebody’s wallet and go look, you know, you would not accept this from me. Yeah. Now, so why do you? Why do you feel it’s acceptable to allow one of your members of your staff to basically steal from you? 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:39 

Again, with that, I’m so pleased that we got to there, yeah, really nice way of showing it. 

Adam Harris  15:47 

Yeah. And I mean, there’s so much more I mean, you know, I would urge anybody that’s listening to this to definitely be exploring, you know, the methodology around us to be looking at the books, to be having conversations, you know, with you, because you don’t know what you don’t know. And actually, if you don’t understand why, you know, as the entrepreneur or the business that exists, what’s the point? You know, you’ve really got to, you know, ascertain, and, you know, this, I think there’s so much bullshit. And it’s great to be on a podcast where I could just be a little bit free with my language. But there’s so much business bullshit that actually you need to understand and EOS might be part of it. But if you’re not spending the time, energy and effort in addressing the things that you really need to what is the point, you might as well just go and get a job with somebody else. And chances are if you know, you’re good at what you do, so you’re probably going to an organisation in a decent salary. And that actually may well be the best thing for you, but at least have the honesty and the openness to explore it and then get to that conclusion. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:01 

Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So did you have any sort of favourite tools in EOS that you like to use? 

Adam Harris  17:08 

Ah, I love GWC you know, do they get it, do they want it, do they have the capacity? I think it’s a real true leveller. I think it completely strips away, you know, the emotion, and it really makes you look in the mirror and just go look, you know, are we just being too nice? I think it’s really easy to just be nice. And somebody you know, years ago, I remember somebody saying way before kind of EOS is that, the longer you hang on to somebody, knowing that it’s the wrong decision, you’re actually preventing them from actually doing what they need and what they’re passionate about. Okay. So we think that we’re protecting them. And we think that we’re doing the best thing for us because we don’t want the confrontation. And we don’t want to have that difficult conversation. But actually, nobody’s winning. And the, you know, the sooner that we do it, the better it’s going to be for you know, for all parties. So I love, I loved GWC.  

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:18 

One of the times that I did it with a leadership team, when I explained, we’re going to do like a real time review and actually go around the room and talk about whether somebody GWC there was just these looks of horror on their faces, like, what, now? Like, actually, in real time, it’s like, yes, we are. And, you know, it was that people were very nervous about it. But in actual fact, some things came out of that, that I think I’ve never, ever in the 35 years of that company being together, has been discussed, and it was fabulous. And, you know, I think that when you have those conversations, then you can really start to move forward. 

Adam Harris  18:48 

Yeah, and I think that, for me, there’s a big part of that is about is, you know, a large part of what EOS is about giving people the permission to be to be open, honest and vulnerable, if they’re in being frank and fearless. Because they know that they can do so. And they can do it without being shot down. And actually, you know, having that level of confrontation is good. If it’s done in the right, if it’s coming from the right place, then what happens is, is the disagreement and the uncertainty then creates opportunity. Because then people go well actually, do you know what? And I typically see it so many times in family businesses where the wrong people are leaving the business, you know, just because they’ve got the they’ve got the surname, and there’s other people and the thing is, is that, you know, I think a lot of boards are really naive to think that the rest of the employees and the other stakeholders do not know and then you know, you kind of, again, I’m sure you’ve seen this and they’ll be numbers, people that were listening to the podcast where you kind of we’ve just made this decision or this has happened and go, well, that should have been done years ago. And you’re like, well, I think people just people just know it’s kind of almost like the unwritten, or the, you know, the unspoken. And the more you can understand that, then the business begins to be a lot more healthy. And they’re, you know, they’re talking about the right things instead of talking about the things that they feel that they should do, because it’s not controversial. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:30 

Okay, so GWC is definitely one of our favourites, anything else that sort of stands out for you? 

Adam Harris  20:34 

I love, I love it. I love level 10. I think for me, the cadence of the weekly meeting, in line with what we’re doing for the quarter, and then for the for the year, that consistency is what creates, you know, the attraction. And, you know, when you think about it, it’s so bloody simple, you know, the aspects of, let’s make sure that you know, same time, same place, you know, same day, every single week. But then  it’s the nuances about ensuring that we’re talking about the right things at the right time. And use just the, you know, you start seeing very fast, very quickly that we’re getting, we’re getting shit done. And actually people go, you know, if there was any resistance to kind of doing it is that you suddenly very, very quickly see what begins to change and what begins to happen. And actually, you know, part of that challenge is around getting the wrong people out of the business. So, you know, what’s got you here is not necessarily going to get you where you want to get to, and it’s about being brave. I think one of the challenges is I find a lot of times is that you know, the entrepreneur a lot of times they’re the bottleneck. So there’s a huge amount of bravery that is kind of needed to kind of you know, go through, you know, the process. And sometimes that you can see the, you know, the mirror have been shown up in front of their face. And I’m sure like, you know, like me, you’ve seen businesses that retreat or entrepreneurs that retreat, because actually the near the light is being shone on them in and they don’t actually like it. Yeah, if they can get over themselves, and they can put their ego to one side. And some can and some can’t, it’s the what then comes off the back end of it, is that you’ve got, you know, a far better business. You’ve got a far, far better, that’s not the right English, far greater level of engagement. Yep. And actually, you’re doing a lot, a lot. A lot better work. A lot greater work. Yeah, or the purpose or whatever it is the reason why you exist. Yeah. But that is part of the journey. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:06 

It is interesting, I actually found out that the EOS light bulb, which I always assumed was like an idea light bulb was actually about shining lights on issues and resolving issues once and for all. So that was an interesting little snippet tidbit. I forgot to ask you, I missed it at the beginning, like interests professional and personal best, what are the things that you would share in terms of your life that you think are, you know, your professional and your personal best so far? 

Adam Harris  23:31 

Okay. Um, so I’m an entrepreneur, I’m an opportunist. I see. I kind of I kind of like it to kind of go. I don’t know if you remember the film Minority Report, I think it was early 90s film, Tom Cruise. And he basically was had a whole load of digital displays. And he was pulling information in from various bits and pieces and connecting things together. That’s kind of how my brain works. So when I’m sitting or I’m listening, or watching or observing, I have this ability to naturally be able to connect things together and see things as opportunities. So where other people might be, this isn’t necessary, you know, what’s the point in doing this? I’m like, okay, this is going to take me one step closer towards what the bigger thing is. So we used to have a business called Airheads, so we used to supply inflatable extras to the TV and film industry. So that took me to some pretty amazing challenging different places. Yeah. I also used to be a professional lookalike. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:39 

Did you? Now I have to guess who it was? 

Adam Harris  24:41 

I won’t put you through the pain and misery because he was a D list celebrity. He was married to Liza Minnelli. Yeah, famously got beaten up by her, allegedly, and he was Michael Jackson’s best friend. And he was a world-renowned record producer. Most people won’t know who he is. But those people that will take a picture analysis, there’s a guy called, was a guy called David Gest.  

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:09 

Yes, I remember him. You were his celebrity lookalike!  

Adam Harris  25:13 

Well, yeah, he’s dead now, unfortunately. So there’s not really much work for me. But again, that just kind of took me to, I didn’t do a massive amount of work with that. But it gave me the chance and the opportunity to see different things. And, you know, for me, what’s been great over the years of having a portfolio career is things that I’ll learn in one situation, I’ll then take into the next company or organisation or coaching session that I’m doing. And that difference and that ability to be able to kind of interweave different situations. Actually, again, that’s kind of where my kind of kryptonite is. From a personal perspective, I think moving, you know, pretty much selling up and moving across to New Zealand has got to be up there. Yeah. What what’s been interesting is, you know, since I kind of have now got the Frank and Fearless brand, is I’ve kind of been leaning into that. So we went down to the South Island earlier this year, and I ended up doing things that I would not normally do. So I’m not, I wouldn’t say that I’m, I have a fear of heights or a phobia, I just, I really don’t like heights. So you know, kind of climb in a waterfall in, in Lake Wanaka. You know, hanging off, you know, 200 metres above the ground going, what the hell am I doing but you know, I kind of this, this mantra kind of being frank and fearless and leaning into it and showing vulnerability with my two daughters. That’s kind of become my new mantra is just kind of go look, you know, if you were unsafe, you wouldn’t be allowed to do it. So get over that fact, face the fear, and I lean into it to see where and how and what the growth aspects are going to be. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:13 

And as you said, some fantastic things come out of that, don’t they? So it’s all worthwhile doing here? Yeah. Okay, so we get we’re getting close to the finish of the podcast in terms of three top tips, because you’ve obviously lived a fascinating life. And I love, I always love hearing more and more about it. But what are your three top tips for business owners? Who perhaps, you know, feel like they might have hit a ceiling? Or they kind of getting a bit stuck? What would you say? are the three things that you would share with them? 

Adam Harris  27:37 

Clarity creates confidence. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I just feel that, you know, human nature dictates that we, our bodies, and our minds will take the path of least resistance, okay, we’re fundamentally lazy. So if people, the business owner, but then also the members of the organization also kind of stakeholders, when people don’t have clarity, their mind start wandering, and they start going off into tangents in the start, you know, creating however many God knows different stories. So when you’re able to give people clarity actually means that you put their mind at rest. So you know, I’m finding that out. Okay, so where are we heading as an organisation, where and what is it that I want right now, communicate it through, people then become self-assured, you know, I’m in theory kind of goes back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you know, I feel safe. And if I feel safe, then I can do what’s definitely needed. So definitely clarity creates confidence. The other thing for me is create the space, the environment where you’re being challenged. Okay, so I believe that we all need to be challenged. And actually it’s about having our questions questioned. And not necessarily our questions answered. Now. The tool for that is going to be different for each and every individual. So some people may well get that from listening to podcasts. Some people may well get that from reading books or listening to books. Some people it may well be one on one coaching, it might be mentoring, it might be mastermind groups, it might be EOS. Where and what is it within your professional and personal life, are you being challenged? And it may well be the case that actually you outgrow the intervention that you’ve got to. So you kind of need – I kind of look at it that you need to be walking away or thinking that’s a really good question. So it’s topping any of the challenge that you’re doing from an internal perspective, when you get to that stage is that you are now kind of working on self-limiting beliefs, you’re working on self-actualisation, you’re in a different growth area to being in the comfort zone. So that’s the second thing. The third thing is if it’s not working in the boardroom, it’s not working in the bedroom. If it’s not working in the bedroom, it’s not working in the boardroom. Okay, so this was a phrase told to me by a good friend of mine called Nigel Risner in the UK, and he’s quite happy with being very controversial. He knows that, you know, just by saying the phrase, some people will get very offended. Yeah, the underlying aspects of what he’s saying is, life is life. And anything that is impacting you from a personal perspective is naturally going to be impacting you from a professional perspective, and vice versa. Have the awareness of that, and ensure that you are dealing with what you need to kind of deal with. And actually, as a leader, or as a business owner, you know, and you have to work out and decide what sort of leader you want to be, but you need to, there needs to be a level of humility in the fact that somebody is not performing – what is it is going on in their life, which is meaning that they’re not performing? And you know, if you’re a humble leader, and you’re building relationships and rapport, actually, how you support people, when they’re going through the bad times will actually mean that you will have far greater times. So I think there’s an aspect of humility, humanise to professionalise, you know, for a lot of the people that are listening to this podcast, we’re in the business of people. It just so happens that we’ve got an output product or a service at the back end. Yeah. So you know, from a cultural perspective, what’s the culture that you want, what’s the culture that you would love to, you know, to lead? What is the legacy that you want to leave for the people that work for you? You know, these are kind of soul-searching questions, but I believe as a coach, and the fundamentals of that sit within EOS, they’re absolutely fundamentally important because otherwise, we’re just becoming transactional. Yeah, we’re just like another business. I’ve started to do a lot of work with big corporations now. Yep. So yeah, the aspects of, you know, it’s not just about you know, the money on the bottom line and shareholder return, what we do for our people, what are we doing for the planet? And what, what, why do we exist? So there’s some similarities with EOS. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:55 

Love it. Hey, Adam, it’s been an absolute pleasure, as always. If people want to get in contact with you and have a conversation about being Frank and Fearless or any other things we’ve talked about, how would they get hold of you? 

Adam Harris  33:06 

So I’ve got the Frank and Fearless leadership podcast available on all platforms. Frankandfearless.com. Or find me on LinkedIn, Adam Harris. I have to say to people, really have a look at the testimonials and the videos of what other people say about me because that will give you an idea of who I am and what I’m about. And I’m a connector. So you know, I kind of work on the premise that if I don’t know the answer, I’ll know somebody that will. Yeah. And if I don’t know somebody that will, I know somebody that can introduce me to somebody that can. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:44 

So you and I have got a lot of similarities there. But hey, that’s really fantastic. Thank you so so much. Look forward to catching up again soon and enjoy the rest of your week. 

Adam Harris  33:53 

Fantastic. Hopefully we’ll be in Auckland as well, face to face. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:57 

Maybe, thanks. Thanks again for joining us on Better Business Better Life with me, your host Debra Chantry-Taylor. If you enjoy what you heard, then please subscribe to this podcast. And let us help you to get what you want out of business in life. Each week we release a new short episode which will give a success story and three takeouts to put into action immediately. These will help you take your business from good to great. The podcast is also supported by free resources, templates and useful tools, which you can find at DebraChantry-Taylor.com. I am a trained entrepreneur, leadership and business coach, a professional EOS implementer and an established business owner myself. I work with established businesses to help them get what they want. Feel free to contact me if you’d like to have a chat about how I might be of help to you. Or if you’d like to join me as a guest on this podcast. Thanks again to NZ audio editors for producing this podcast. See you on the next episode.