Unlock the Secrets of Personal Transformation with Bob Burg | Ep 106 |

Bob Burg  00:00

You know, my feeling is when you say I'm not really naturally in sales, I'm more about helping Well, we would say then you're naturally in sales, because that's what you know. That's what sales is. It's, it's helping it's serving, it's it's sharing, it's giving, it's giving time, attention, counsel, education, empathy, and immense value. And, you know, so it makes great sense that you're a wonderful salesperson.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:26

Good morning, and welcome to the latest edition of better business better life. Today, I am super excited because I am a bit of a fangirl of the next guests that I have on the show today. So I have got Bob Bur, who is actually the co author of the Go Giver series. But more than that, for over 30 years, Bob has actually been successfully showing entrepreneurs, leaders and sales professionals how to communicate their value and accelerate their business growth. And although for years, he was best known for his sales classic, endless referrals, it's actually his business parable, that go giver that was co authored with John David Mann that's created a worldwide movement. There's a whole lot more stuff in there that I want to tell you. But I really just want to share my own personal experience. And I'll quickly introduce Bob. So I actually got driven towards the Go Giver book by a friend of mine, Vijay posted it on LinkedIn, I thought that sounds like a great book, I must read it. I read it and was immediately kind of in love with the concepts of philosophies in there, there's five main philosophies. And so I went and bought the whole series, because it's actually five series in five books in the series, I think those and I was just absolutely enamored of what I learned. And I was talking to my coach, Nikki Balu. And I said, oh, there's Bob Bur. I love his stuff. He said, I'll put you in contact with him. And this is how Bob got to be on my show today. So Bob, huge welcome. Thank you so much for giving me your time, I really appreciate it.

Bob Burg  01:42

My absolute pleasure, what a joy to be with you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:46

So as I said, I came across the books purely by accident, really great time in my life for me to actually come across them because I was struggling with what I what I thought selling was in my business. And I had been told by lots of salespeople that you know, you need to do this, you should do that you must do the other. And I'm not naturally a salesperson, I'm very much about helping people. And just, you know, giving one of our values is actually health first, and so we give without any expectation of return. And so when I read your books, it was like, wow, okay, now this actually makes sense. What I'm doing is not so far wrong. It's just really that I have to not listen to the people who are trying to push me into a hard kind of sales role. So your background is in sales. Is that right?

Bob Burg  02:26

It is. And you know, my feeling is when you say I'm not really naturally in sales, I'm more about helping Well, we would say then you're naturally in sales, because that's what you know, that's what sales is. It's, it's helping, it's serving, it's it's sharing, it's giving, it's giving time, attention, counsel, education, empathy, and immense value. And, you know, so it makes great sense that you're a wonderful salesperson.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  02:53

That's very kind. Thank you. As I said that there are a lot of salespeople out there or sales training people who will tell you that you have to follow a particular method, you need to do this, you've got different types of closing, all that sort of thing. That's why the book was a breath of fresh air for me. So tell me a little bit about, you know, how did you come to write the book? I know you had a previous bestseller before that, which you wrote in the 90s. But tell us to share a little bit about how you came to write the book for me.

Bob Burg  03:16

Yeah, so years. years ago, back in the 90s, I had a book called Endless Referrals. The subtitle was network your everyday contacts into sales. It was a it was a how to book. Basically, for entrepreneurs and salespeople who knew they had a great product or service, they knew it brought wonderful value to people, but they didn't necessarily feel comfortable going out into their local communities and building the kind of relationships with people that would cause those people to want to do business with them directly and or refer them to others so. So really, I had put together a system now, personally, I define a system as the process of predictably achieving the goal based on a logical and specific set of how to principles, the key being predictability of it's been proven that by doing a, you'll get the desired result of B, then you know, all you need to do is a and continue to do a and you'll get the desired results of being this was one where the the basic premise of the entire book, and pretty much the premise of everything I've taught over the last 3035 years can be wrapped up in one sentence and that is all things being equal. People will do business with and refer business to those people they know like and trust. And the book was about helping people develop exactly those kinds of relationships. But again, it's a how to book and I always loved reading parables because parables are stories and as you know, stories connect on sort of a deeper heart to heart level and and around the maybe 2003 or so I got to know jhandi wide neum a little earlier but I presented him but he was the editor in chief of a magazine I was writing for. And even back then he had the reputation as a fantastic writer, and, and storyteller. So I told John about this kind of idea I had about taking the basic premise of endless referrals and making it into a parable. And would he be interested in the idea so he and his his fiancee at the time now his wife, Ana, who they've written the book. That's right, so I'm gonna give a marriage. Yeah. But back then their fiancee, but but they were visiting her mother in on the west coast of Florida. I live on the east coast. So one day, they took a long drive over across the coast, and we had a long dinner and talked about the idea of this, you know, go give her idea. And, you know, few weeks later, he called me and said, Yeah, you know, let's do this. And that's really how it happened. So it took really only a few months for us to write the book. Again, John was really the lead writer. And then we were turned down by I think, 24 publishers in New York before finally one, you know, pick this up. And you know, it's been a great relationship with that, with that publisher, so it all worked out.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:12

So that in itself is a lesson isn't it's about give up. Because you there will be somebody who is the right publisher for you if you're writing your book. So there are five laws in the book, right? So that's what the whole book is about. It's about the five laws that I guess you wrote about in your first book, but It's told through a story. It's told through the story of I forgotten his name, right? Yep. Who is really struggling, and he comes across a person who ends up being his mentor, and actually helps share those five laws with him. Would you mind sharing a little bit more about what those five laws are?

Bob Burg  06:41

No, not at all. The five laws are the laws of value compensation, influence, authenticity, and receptivity. Law, number one, the law of value says your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. Now, this sounds counterintuitive when you first hear it because it sounds like Why wouldn't that be a recipe for bankruptcy give more in value than you take in payment. But we realize that of course, price and value. I love that EOS cup you have that's a that's a great cup that you drink. And, and I know that's your specialty, it's an awesome, great cup. And so, you know, it's understanding that price is $1. Figure. But but you know, and it's finite value, on the other hand, is the relative worth or desirability of a thing of something to the end user or beholder? In other words, what is it about this thing was product service concept idea, what have you that brings so much worth or value to someone that they will willingly exchange their money for it and be glad they did. While you make a very healthy profit in the story we use the example of Ernesto is Italian cafe, it's a high end cafe and a swanky part of the village. And, you know, if you eat there, it's gonna cost you you know, some money, right. But you But you feel so great about the whole experience afterwards, that it was well, well worth, you know, the price that you paid for the value that you received. And of course, the owner, Mr. Issa, fronte, it cost him a lot less to keep the doors open to you know, for the equipment for the staff for the food, the cost of goods sold, so forth. So he made a profit as well. So in really, the law of value says, in a sense, that there's always at least two profits, right, the buyer profits and the seller profits, because everybody comes away better off afterwards than they were beforehand. And so, you know, it's sort of like when someone, you know, brings you in to help them with their, with their business, you're charging them a very healthy fee, which you should, but what you're helping them to do is going to make them a lot more money, have a much more functioning company have a lot happier company and everything, the entire experience they receive is going to bring them in a lot more value than what they're paying while you also make a very healthy profit. So that's really the law of value. Law number two, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:23

No, no, just No, that's fantastic. So it's a really good way to look at it. And I think that people think particularly New Zealand, we have this whole thing about worrying about what we charge, but if you know that you're actually offering value that has that huge amount of value, then the pricing becomes a little bit easier to use.

Bob Burg  09:38

It's not just New Zealand, it's certainly United States. And I suspect it's pretty much everywhere but so law of law number two is the law of compensation and this says your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. So we're law number one says to get more involved Are you then you're taking payment, large, who tells us that the more people whose lives you touch when the exceptional value you provide, the more money with which you'll be rewarded. So, so as as Nicole, who was the CEO, and the story, one of the mentors, and she explained to Joe, the law of value represents your potential income. But the law of compensation represents your actual income, because it's about how many lives you impact with that value. So we could say exceptional value plus significant reach equals very high compensation. Now, Law number three is the law of influence. And the law of influences. Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first, again, sounds kind of productive, maybe even, you know, Pollyanna ish, right to put what place other people's interests first but and yet, you know, this is how the greatest salespeople, the the greatest leaders, the top producers, money earners, the most, you know, this is how this is how they do it. They're always looking out for the interests of the other person. Now, let me let me clarify, though, if I may then qualify, because I think this is very important that can be easily misunderstood. When we say placed the other person's interests first, we don't mean that you should be, we would say in the United States to be anybody's doormat, I don't know, if you have that. That thing. You know, we it's not that you should be a martyr, it's not that you should be self sacrificial, absolutely not at all. It's simply as Joe, the protege, learned from several of the mentors, the golden rule of business of sales is, as we were talking about before, you know, the All things being equal, people will do business with refer business to those people they know, like and trust. Well, here's the thing, Debra, there's no faster, more powerful or more effective way to elicit those feelings toward you in others than by genuinely moving from an eye focus, or me focus to n, other focus, looking to make your win all about the other person's win, you know, something I say, when I speak at sales conferences, and I often start out saying this, and that is, nobody's gonna buy from you, because you have a quota to me. Right, they're not going to buy from you because you need the money. And really, they're not going to buy from you just because you're a really nice person, they're going to buy from you, because they believe that ultimately, they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. And that makes sense, doesn't it? Why would we expect them to do business with us for any other reason, but this is great news for that salesperson, who can, you know, have a heart to serve who really wants to, and same with a leader, you know, no one's gonna follow you because you want them to, if you're a leader, they're gonna follow you because they believe they're gonna benefit by doing so. So it's up to the leader to you know, discover that same thing? How can I add value to this person's life? How can I tie our company mission into a, you know, what, what they need, what they want, what they desire? What problems? Am I helping them solve? How am I helping to bring them closer to happiness and self satisfaction and fulfillment? Right? So that's why that law of influence is absolutely so very powerful. Law number four is the law of authenticity. And this one says the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself. Debra, who was the, the mentor in this part of the story, you know, she shared a lesson that was very important to her. And that is that, that all the skills in the world, the sales skills, technical skills, people skills, as important as they are, and they are indeed very important. But they're also all for naught if you don't come at it from your true, authentic core. But when you do, when you show up as yourself, day after day, week, after week, month after month, people feel they feel good about you. They also feel very comfortable with you, and they feel safe with you. And why wouldn't they they know who they're getting. Right? They know who they're getting. We've all known these people who you know, they they're one way one day and the next time you see them, they're totally different. Well, that's very difficult to maintain trust that way. Why? Because people and this is just an aspect of human nature. People want to be able to make sense of their world. In this in a world that often doesn't make sense. They want to, to feel some type of consistency. In a world that's often very inconsistent. So when we should as well as ourselves, okay? Now we're able to really inspire trust, we're able to maintain trust. So very, very, very key.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:10

I'm really interested that little sidebar here, Gino Wickman, who obviously is the author of the EOS system that I help people with. Yeah, he actually he gave an example that I think is his 30th birthday party, his, his wife had invited various people from all different walks of life, you know, his family, his friends, his business. And he suddenly realized that he had basically five different personalities at this point, that he was to all of these different people. And it was a bit of an AHA moment, because he realized how much energy it took to kind of be five different people with five different groups of people. And it's actually just the inner talks about flying your freak flag, and being your authentic self. And he says, it's so much easier and so much, so much less energy is expended by just being yourself, because you haven't got to worry about thinking about who are you with, and who am i Pretending to be? I'm just being me. And I love that. And I've really taken that to heart because I think that EOS is a framework and a system that will think is very cookie cutter. And it has it's a framework, it still is actually delivered by people. And as people the way I deliver it, and I always deliver it with my elephant is a little bit different to you know how other people might deliver the same thing. So yeah, love that love that law.

Bob Burg  16:19

And then that law, number five is the law of receptivity. And this one says the key to effective giving, is to stay open to receiving. And this really means nothing more than understanding that, that, you know, we breathe out, we also have to breathe in. It's not one or the other. Right? We breathe out carbon dioxide, we breathe in oxygen, we breathe out, which is giving we breathe in which is receiving. Too often. And again, it's not just New Zealand, it's right here in the United States. And I'm going to suggest it's everywhere else we see giving and receiving is two totally different concepts, right? You're either a giver or a receiver. We call this the treacherous dichotomy or the false dilemma, the unnecessary use of the word or right? Are you a giver, or a receiver? No, you're a giver, and a receiver. Giving and Receiving are two sides of the very same coin, and they work in tandem. Now what we know is that the given comes first. This again is universal law. Its laws of nature, laws of economic nature, laws of, of human nature, laws of physical nature, we plant before we harvest, it's not the other way around, we give we sow before we reap and we give before we receive. But you know, it's remember in the original book and the Go Giver Pindar, the main mentor said to Joe, some people approach a fireplace with the attitude of First you give me some heat and some fire, then I'll throw on some logs and some, you know, newspaper and some, you know, enlightened match. Well, no, that's not how life works. We have to give first, but once we have, and once we've set into motion by giving value of giving value without attachment to receiving but giving value, giving value to lots and lots of people doing so, from the interest point of the other person, right, placing their interests first doing it authentically. Now we've created what what John and I call the benevolent context for success. And now as it comes to you, we've got to be able to open ourselves to receive with gratitude, and willingly. And when we do that, now we've got a really a life of abundance.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:59

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. And I think that yeah, the gratitude thing is really important. So it's interesting, though, because you know that I mean, these five laws, they don't just apply, they apply to everything in the in the book that first go give a book, it is Joe, it's him in his sales role trying to do business. And as you said, he comes across a whole lot of mentors who teach different things. And it's wonderful to see how the little light bulb moments kind of go off in his brain. But obviously, the rest of the series talks about other things. So leadership and sales and a whole range of marriage and these five laws actually transgress across all of our transverse across all of our areas of our life, isn't it? Right?

Bob Burg  19:34

Yeah, you know, I think universal laws really apply you know, and whether we're talking about success in terms of financial, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, social, relational, and whatever dozens of other ways there probably are, you know, universal laws or law, their principles, right now strategies, tactics, all the you know, I mean, you can apply them to different things at different times and in different but laws in principle just work across the board. Yeah, exactly.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:04

The thing about sort of asking for help, I mean, I know that a lot of people, particularly business people that I've worked with, they feel that sort of asking for help is is effectively a failure. I haven't been able to do it myself, what's wrong with me? Why can't I do this? And so I noticed that a lot of business owners, there's a reluctance to actually put their hand up and go, Hey, I could do some help here. What would you say to those people?

Bob Bur  20:25

Well, that's part of receptivity. You know, it's part of allowing yourself to receive, and, you know, we would say it's a strength to be able to do that. And, you know, myself as well as most people, you know, have had that challenge in the past and had to get over and, and, you know, it's the same one, when, you know, we talk about receptivity, well, what do you mean? Well, it can be a smallest is when someone gives you a compliment. It's saying thank you, instead of Oh, no, no, I, you know, right. So yeah, thank you. That's very kind of you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:57

It's actually really interesting, because I think, again, a lot of people actually really struggle with that. And I was very fortunate, I did a lot of training many years ago about actually receiving those kinds of compliments. And I never forget, one day, I was actually out on the street in a pinstripe suit, which is actually quite funky. And this car literally pulled over and stopped and said to me, Wow, you look amazing. In that suit. I just went, that is fantastic. Thank you so much. You've made my day. And the person receiving that also smile. So it is again, that reciprocity, isn't it that the both of us exchange feeling really great. Yeah,

Bob Burg  21:27

Because they gave you a compliment and had you just, you know what it would have been? Well, it would have just shut off the flow. Instead, you thank them profusely, and make them feel good about themselves. So it was the giving and receiving and now both of you were more filled and had more to give and receive when it comes to others. So sure. So I think it's something to you know, when it comes to not asking for help, we need to work on it. And like anything else, if you know it's an issue, and you know that you'd be better off by being able to ask for help, then you start working on it now at first ask for very little things. And then build on your small successes, don't just try to go for the big, you know, it would build up, start small build on your successes, and it begins to multiply and add up and now you're able to do that. Sure.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:14

Yeah, I love it. And I think also one of the ways I always talk to people about it, too, is if you think about, yeah, I was asked them, How does it make you feel when you help somebody? And they'll usually respond without amazing, fabulous, whatever they have the right words are? And you say, right, so if you don't actually ask for help, you're actually denying that person the ability to feel that way. So don't feel that you're imposing it's more the act to give them an opportunity for them to feel good, too.

Bob Burg  22:35

 So yeah, absolutely.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:38

So, some people listening into this who haven't read the books, and who might not fully understand the concept might go but if it's all about giving, you know, what about because there is a there's a really great TED talk about you know, givers and takers. And so if you're always giving, do you end up being the doormat? Do you end up being the person who will take advantage of what does it really mean? If you're always giving?

Bob Burg  22:58

Yeah, well, so first of all, two of the laws are about compensation and receptivity. So you know, by definition, it's not all about giving. But we certainly lead we focus with the giving, you know, we always say that the the basic premise of the Go Giver is that you shift your focus, and this is the key, you shift your focus from getting to giving, understanding that giving in this context means constantly and consistently providing value to others. And it's understanding that not only is it a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it's actually the most financially profitable. Why because, again, when you move your focus off yourself, which the other person probably doesn't care about anyway, and place your focus on them, which they do care about anyway. Well, you're creating that right here. You're creating that, that context for business to take place. But let me answer the question, because it's a good one. If it's, you know, we're talking about giving can you be taken advantage of, well, first, anyone can be taken advantage of ever, whether they're a giver, or a taker. And I think it was Adam Grants, book, give and take, which he did talk about, and, and so anyone can be taken advantage of. But I would say this, if a person finds themselves constantly taken advantage of, you know, as a pattern, I don't mean every so often in life, which is going to happen if you're a human being right, but but I mean, as a pattern, you find yourself being taken advantage of. It's not because you're a giver. It's not because you're nice. It's because you're doing things in a certain way. That is creating the environment for you to be taken advantage of. Okay? And there's always a reason for it. About 100% of the time it's unconscious. The person's not even aware of it, but they're doing something where there is a an emotional payoff to being taken advantage of. Whether it's the attention you get from people feeling badly for you, whether it's an excuse that Oh, I'm not I wouldn't be more successful, but oh, I give so much and people are always just taking advantage of me right? Or whether it's not having the tools to know how to properly respect your own boundary. You know, whatever the reason being, I'm not saying it's anything for anyone listening, I'm just saying, there's always a reason for this. But there's nothing about being a go giver, that is in any way congruent with being taken advantage of or, you know, a martyr or doormat or or anything like that. No.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:28

Yeah, absolutely. As you said, the laws are all about kind of adding value thinking of others. from a leadership standpoint. Yeah. What can you give some tips for, for leaders who are listening to this show right now? What are the three top tips you can actually share with us as to where they might get started? If they're feeling that they need to help?

Bob Burg  25:45

Well, it's just first, it's always understanding that it's about those you lead. You know, it's never a great great salesmanship is never about the salesperson and great leadership is never about the leader. It's always about those people were trying to bring value to. I think that's the first thing to keep in mind. You know, it's understanding that you're always dealing with people. Technology is great. But technology is simply a means to an end. It's never about the technology. It's always about the people. And to the degree that as a leader, you can focus on building them. Right? That's the degree you're going to become a much better, more effective and much more respected leader.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:31

Fair enough. Tell me a little bit about your life. Has there been any sort of times in your life where you have felt that you've been stuck? And what have you done? Because but the book is all about mentorship, right? as well. And there's, there's the five laws, but it's about actually finding mentors that can actually help you on your journey. Is the retirement Bob's life that he kind of felt a bit stuck and had to look for somebody to help?

Bob Burg  26:52

Oh, sure, certainly. And I've always reached out to people. And, but what I always tried to do is bring them as much value as I could, you know, whether or not I was in a position to be able to do so they always knew I was making the effort and that I respected them and that I was grateful to them. But sure, you know, there's always been those people who were where I wanted to be. And, and I've just always been fortunate that I've been able to find those people who would, you know, spend some time to work with me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:24

So how do you go about finding a mentor? Because I know I've had several throughout my life as well, I'm very grateful to the things they've done for me. And I hope I've added some value to them, too. But how do you if you're looking for somebody to mentor you? What do you what's the? How do you go about it? I'd even start.

Bob Burg  27:39

I mean, I think you first of all, you you seek out that person, you find that person who you would like to be it might be someone who hasn't done what you want to do. Or it might be just someone who's had some real success in life that's principle based, as opposed to a specific business, you know, type of base, it might be someone whose style is very similar might be someone whose ethics you admire, it might be, you know, wherever that person is, and you can contact that person, I think a mistake a lot of people make is they'll they'll contact someone without with whom they don't have a relationship yet. And they'll just say, hey, we be my mentor. And that person's probably much too busy to just take on everybody who asked and a whole lot of people do ask, but and there's nothing that distinguishes you if you just ask them that way. But so I wouldn't, I wouldn't go for the marriage before the date. Okay, I would instead you know, reach out to that person and just say, Listen, I know you're very, you're very busy. If this is something you either don't have the time to do, or for whatever reason would rather not I'll totally understand. I'm wondering if I might ask you one or two very specific questions. Boom. Now, what you've done is, first, you've communicated that you respect the process, you understand that this is not something you're entitled to, but that it's a very big ask, right? You have given them an out or a backdoor by right up front saying if this is something you're simply too busy to do, or would rather not for whatever reason, I'll understand and that actually provides you with a much better chance of they're saying yes, because what you haven't done is tried to guilt them or make them feel, you know, as though this is something they have to do. So they know you respect the process, you respect their time, you're probably not going to take up a lot of the time because obviously that's something that you're thinking about. And then what you did, which is very important, is rather than asking if you could just this might be just another American term, but to pick their brain, right? And just instead, you know, you've said one or two very specific questions. So now they know you know, this is a person who is not going to waste my time. They respect the process. They're going to they know what they want to ask right now. You have a conversation with them. Make sure you do read spec their time, and so forth, let them know how much you appreciate it afterwards. And then what I would do is I would write a handwritten personalized note, very short and sweet afterwards, just thanking them for their time, their counsel was priceless, I look forward to applying the information. And if I, you know, if I may, I'll keep you up to date with my progress, boom, best regard, you know, whatever, what I would also do is I would find, and you can probably find this online or maybe from their administrative assistant, their, their favorite charity, and make a small donation in their name. Okay, and doesn't have to be anything but a donation in their name, that will get back to them. And you know, you're really only doing it just so they know that, again, you want to, in some way be able to give value to them, as opposed to just receive. And, you know, you might call in three weeks or a month with another question and others. And if they're open to continuing the conversation, right, you know, eventually a mentor protege relationship might develop. It might not, that might be the only conversation you have with them. Or you might have one or two conversations or through whatever, and somebody else will come, you know, then you just never know, my suggestion would be though, to approach it like that, without attachment to the results. And eventually, there's a good chance you're going to find the person or people are gonna really be there for you. And then you'll do the same. You know, for others.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:34

It's the same principles isn't a book, I absolutely agree. And I love the approach of actually having specific questions. I think all too often people go out there, they just ask for very, you know, I want you to help me, it's like, well, yeah, how long is that going to be what. I think we've been very specific. And I must say, I'm a big fan of handwritten notes. I believe that technology, I love technology. But I actually believe it's taken away some of that personal interaction and communication. And so if I ever received anything handwritten, I'm hugely grateful for the fact that that person has taken the time to actually do that. And especially the charity thing, I think, is another great idea, as you're showing that you want to add some value back, Bob, I just say I'm a big fan. I love the work that you're doing. I share it with all of my clients. And I'm very grateful to both you and of course to John David Mann as well, who's a co author and his wife, Anna, for the for the Go Giver marriage series. I actually have my husband read as well. And it's been it's really changed the way we do things in our, in our marriage. So very, very appreciative. I love what you do, as you can tell, how can people get ahold of you? And the books if they want to find out more?

Bob Burg  32:38

Yeah, very easily. The best way is just go to Burg, burg.com. And I'm a simple man, I try to keep things very simple. And while they're there, they're there when while they're there, they can go to where it says books, and they can download a free chapter of any of them and see if they liked them before they order. And while they're there, they can subscribe to my daily impact email I send out Monday through Friday. And yeah, so I invite people to come to burke.com Hey, it has been an absolute joy being with you. Thank you so much again for having me. I love what you're doing. And this was just a real thrill.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:15

I really appreciate your time and it's been a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. I hope that we keep in contact over the years and you have a great rest of your day.

Bob Burg  33:23

Thank you. You too.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:24

Thank you