Smart Money Moves | Michelle Taylor | Ep 220

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:00

Just because you're a great business owner does not mean that you're a great financial wealth manager.

Michelle Taylor 00:05

Find people that are smarter than you to bring in the resources you need. You don't want to put your head in the sand. Mentors are obviously a big deal, especially for entrepreneurs, are always helpful.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:25

Thanks for joining us on the Better Business better life podcast. I'm your host, Debra Chantry Taylor, and I'm passionate about helping entrepreneurs lead their ideal lives by creating better businesses. Because as I always say, life is too bloody short. I'm a certified EOS implementer and FBA accredited family business advisor and a business owner myself with several business interests. I work with established business owners and their leadership teams to help them live their ideal entrepreneurial life using EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System. I use this podcast to share practical tips and tools about how you can improve your business and therefore your life to get more of what you want. Today's guest was diagnosed with leukaemia in her teens, and got told she had three weeks to live if she didn't do something. She had an entrepreneurial father and a conservative mother, and they helped to shape her money beliefs. She's passionate about seeing entrepreneurs live their dreams through managing their wealth effectively, and today, she's going to share with you some of the common mistakes that entrepreneurs make around money and investment and how you can actually use money to create your ideal life. Michelle Taylor is a financial advisor at Gambin Financial Group. So welcome to the show, Michelle, it's lovely to have you here.

Michelle Taylor 01:44

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:49

So we've just been talking a little bit before we came on the podcast, and you have a really kind of interesting back story. Would you mind taking us a little bit through telling us how you got to where you are today and the things that you've done on that journey?

Michelle Taylor 01:59

Sure, I would love to. So when I was growing up, I was given two wonderful examples as parents. However, they are very stark contrast of each other. When my parents got divorced, when I was five, my mom went back to work in the retail management space, and my dad was an entrepreneur, and my mom was very budgeted, very strategic and strict in how she approached money, but she also was always operating from more of a scarcity mindset, where my dad was an entrepreneur, and in the beginning, obviously That requires a tonne of work and not a lot of income coming in. So I got to watch him right next to him, he owns a Window and Door Company. I used to go for rides in his truck with him to jobs, and I got to watch him build something that was significant.

What my dad was able to teach me was quite a bit on how to deal with clients and how to pour into people to ensure, basically, that they were raving fans at the end of the day. And he did very so much good in that space for me. However, when it came to money management and growing my money, there weren't a lot of conversations had. So what I quickly discovered was I was ill equipped to make sure that my money story was one that suited me. I was diagnosed with leukaemia as a teenager, and this was totally out of the blue. I had never even had a cavity and suddenly was dealing with something that they told my parents, it's highly curable, but if it's not treated, within three weeks, she will pass away. So I learned, then some valuable lessons that I've carried with me forever on just not to sweat the small stuff and to tackle a problem, you know, head on and one step at a time. And when I was when I made it through and was in remission, I fell into quite a bit of debt. Really, got in some trouble just with trying to fill a cup that I wasn't even aware of at that point, but learned some really hard lessons on how to manage money, how to not spend more than you have coming in. Then, long story short, I ended up getting on the other side of that and wanted to become an entrepreneur, so I started one business venture, started another business venture, and in that time, met my husband, we had a financial advisor who was one of our best friends, and then I shifted into this space of consulting and wealth management. And here we are.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:59

Excellent. That must have been a real shock. Like leukaemia at a teenage age, must have been a real shock to you. What was your, how did you initially kind of deal with that?

Michelle Taylor 05:12

I think avoidance probably. I pride myself on being an optimist, but in my, you know, as I've grown and understood looking back at my teenage brain, I remember saying to the doctors, I've had colds that are worse than this, and they told me that my mindset was a huge benefit to me getting better as quickly as I did, but I also realised that it probably wasn't very healthy in all capacities that it could be, because I didn't deal with it. I just kept running from it, and I think for so many years of my life, I was running from that version of myself and terrified of ever getting sick again, because I didn't really deal with it. So on one hand, it was so beneficial, it taught me to not, you know, dwell on negativity, but on the other side, I also probably ran from it and never faced it head on, like I needed to until I was a bit older.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:20

Okay, and so do you mind me asking, like, how did you deal with it later on? Because these things do come back to bite us in some respects, don't they, if you if we push them aside and push through.

Michelle Taylor 06:28

You know, it really does. So I, I didn't have any big epiphany, but I just, I really understood that by running from something and not like unpacking it emotionally. I was still giving it a lot of power, and I found that that really came to light when I started to have, when I had my kids, because I was so terrified. I was almost like, what I was scared of, that I was thinking about them, and I was just so worried about them always being healthy. And I thought, Okay, I am clearly projecting onto them, and they were babies, but I would think about the littlest things and get terrified and want to avoid it instead of just facing it. I'll never forget laying in bed once and running my hand down my daughter the back of her head, and I felt this little bump, and it ended up being nothing, but in my mind, I'm like, I can't take her to a doctor, because what if it's bad news? And that's what I'm like, that's not a normal reaction. So I had to really understand, unpack all of that and understand that just because something is bad, it doesn't mean that you should run from it. You should tackle it, and not just think everything is going to be okay without doing the work to make sure it is.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:51

That makes perfect sense. Now I'm also interested in your story. You saw said that you know, you were desperate to become an entrepreneur, and I find that fascinating, because I actually got with quite traditional parents, and they never quite understood why I wanted to go into business for myself. Like, why would you work for somebody? Why would you work for yourself when you can work for somebody else? And I remember one time I was actually running a business. We had about 14 staff, and times were tough. And I'd share with my parents, you know, times were a bit tough, and that, why don't you go and get a real job? And it's like, I have a real job. I'm actually employing 14 people. I provide income and a life for 14 people. That is a real job, but they just didn't get that. But you were obviously very fortunate to have both an entrepreneurial father and then a non-entrepreneur mother. Was it about entrepreneurialism that affected you?

Michelle Taylor 08:33

I will tell you so my mom, you know, so many of my good habits came from her, but I remember she couldn't stand her job. The hours that she had to keep were not family friendly, and I remember money was always stressful to her, and so I didn't there wasn't one thing. It was really all of it. I remember watching her and thinking, I don't want anything to do with what that looks like I want to love my job and love what I'm doing. And, you know, she sacrificed so much for me, but at the same time, like I felt that it was her access to autonomy that was holding her back as well. And so with my dad being an entrepreneur, I got to see firsthand that, you know, he would just take the time he needed, and if we wanted to go somewhere during the summer, there was no one. He had to ask. We just did it.

So I also equated it with just a happy family life. My family life was amazing, and I didn't realise it until I was older, but I had other examples in my life of successful people, one of which was my dad's best friend was a dentist. Now I started off in elementary education, really early on. It only lasted a semester. I realised that was not the path I wanted to take, but I. Shifted to pre dental, and I was pre dental for a few years, and I again after it took me a couple of years to understand why, but I went into that area of study not because I really wanted to be a dentist, but because I wanted the life that my uncle was exemplifying for me. So once I realised that I had another uncle that was an entrepreneur, and then my dad, I could quickly pull together that all the common thread there was that they were entrepreneurs and were able to be the architects of their own lives. And that's what was so appealing to me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:38

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I know that that's what we all go into our own business for, is that freedom, that the ability to kind of have a great lifestyle, to do what we love with people we love, and have time for other things. But it's not always like that, is it? So sometimes you would have said it with your father, I'm sure, is that, yes, there are some great times when that can happen, but there are also some pretty, pretty tough times as well. Do you remember your father going through tough times in the business?

Michelle Taylor 11:00

I remember watching him in 2008 here in the States, obviously, we were in a pretty dire situation with the big recession, and he struggled a bit there. Business did okay, but he had a partner in about 2009 10 that was making things really difficult for him, and I will never forget walking in to his house and he was on the corner of his bed crying because he didn't know how he was going to pay payroll. And that is nothing I'd ever seen for my dad and I was so uncomfortable at first because I didn't know what to do or how to approach it, but that was a good example of, you know, it's not easy, especially when you just referenced you're providing a life for 14 people, and when you know you're going through something difficult, there are a lot of people that are affected, and I think that that's one of the things that for entrepreneurship, isn't, you know, one of the best parts of it, it can be a driver for all of us to push harder and to make sure that those things are being accomplished. But at the same time, it's very real and very scary how quickly things can turn.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:19

And I know that you also mentioned that, you know, you saw these two different kind of money, money mindsets, I suppose, in terms of your mum and your dad. And I know that working with entrepreneurs, you know, often we, we're not so good at the financial side of things in terms but also not so good. It's like we, we enjoy life as well. And so I know, I know personally. I just speak from personal experience, there have been times when the money has been rolling in. And so we've had all the toys, the cars, the house, all that kind of stuff. And then you get into some tough times, and you rather you haven't really prepared yourself particularly well for the tough times. From a financial advisor perspective, you must see that a fair bit I'm assuming.

Michelle Taylor 12:55

All the time. It's easy to enjoy, want to enjoy the fruits of your labour, and think that, and it's interesting, because we are entrepreneurs, there is this the sense of urgency, I think, is not there, because we have the power to go out and just we think, make more money when we need it. And that's not always easy.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:19

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I've just certainly bounced back a few times from sort of a couple of business disasters, and you can always make more money, but it comes with it comes with stress, and it comes with a lot of hard work as well. So, as a financial advisor, you're now working with entrepreneurs and helping them with their financial thing. Tell me a bit about what you what you do with them, like, what is, what is a financial advisor role.

Michelle Taylor 13:41

So, we do things a bit differently here, because we have a focus of working with entrepreneurs. We're not just talking about putting your money in the market. For example, one of the biggest things that is a cheat code, if you will, for entrepreneurs to grow and scale their business is access to capital. So if you're sitting down with a traditional financial advisor, one of the things they may be telling you is to put your money either into retirement accounts or into the market. The reality is, it's a very strong possibility that just putting your money into the market without understanding the big picture, your investment strategy could be in direct competition with your business strategy. So we are looking at things from a 30,000 foot overview and making sure that we're addressing one a full risk management on it, so understanding are all of the documents for your business in order? Are you keeping up with the fil   ings every year? Are you do you have the right insurances in place with, you know, general liability, if you've got people working for you to make sure that you're protected, essentially making sure that nobody can ever. Or take what you're building and you only have to get wealthy one time. We do a lot in the tax planning space here in the States, business owners are always at odds with trying to figure out not only how to make more, but to keep more of their money, and then putting your money to work for you in a way that we can leverage it. So when you spend $1 we want to make sure that, if possible, we're able to leverage it with a line of credit, so that it's able to work for you in multiple places. And that's really how you grow true wealth. And then the last piece is really understanding exit strategy, succession planning, estate planning, and ensuring that what you envision for the end of your business actually happens.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:48

Actually, it's really true. I mean, I know a lot of people kind of think that with that, lot of younger people go into a business with a very, very clear exit strategy, because they have in mind that they want to sell the business. But I noticed that with people have been around for a while, they often haven't really thought about it, because it's really only when you get to a certain age that you start thinking about, well, what's going to happen if I want to retire, or I work with a lot of family businesses, and often they haven't really thought about how it will actually be handed down to the family, or if the families have been interested in actually taking over the business. So there's a lot of work to be done around what you really want as your end goal. Isn't that in terms and I think a lot of people don't think about that until it packs a little bit too late.

Michelle Taylor 16:26

Sure, and you bring up a great point, you should be thinking through these things and having these conversation years in advance so that you can prepare and be ready for an exit or to pass it on to someone in your family and not have it feel frantic because you're trying to put pieces together that would have otherwise already been put together.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:46

Yeah, I often have clients, as you nominate us implemented. I often have clients who come to me who say they know we're looking to build up the business and sell. And I say, what's your time frame? And they're like, oh, within sort of 12 to 18 months. It's like, really, we need about three to five years to really get the business, yes, pumping to a point so you can get the best return from it. I'm not saying, you know, sometimes it can happen a whole lot quicker, but you've got to really start thinking early on and making those changes early on so you can put the system in place to actually realise that.

Michelle Taylor 17:12

Absolutely. You have to have a long runway to be as successful as you can with a sale.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:17

So tell me a little bit about what's the biggest mistake that you see people make in entrepreneurship and their finances?

Michelle Taylor 17:25

Oh boy. Well, growing and scaling is always something that someone wants to do. I think when they grow quickly, they try and integrate and implement a lot of different things at the same time, I have seen firsthand that that can be problematic. You know the old saying, you want to hire slow and fire fast. You that can be really super imposed onto any aspect of business. You want to make sure that the decisions you're making are super intentional, but when you know they're not working, you want to pivot quickly and get to a point where you're moving the canoe in the right direction. So I feel like that is something that so often business owners, you know, especially entrepreneurs, or visionaries. So there's always a tonne of great ideas that we want to get going really quickly, and then sometimes to get out of those ideas that don't pan out, that takes too, too much time. So I would say that that's the biggest thing that I see, is definitely around growing and scaling, and also just leaving yourself open to vulnerability, around liability, understanding how somebody can come in and potentially take what you're building, that has to be a primary focus as well. We want to make sure that all of those, the possible leaks, are plugged before you're out to see.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:54

Perfect sense. I know that you do a lot of work with female entrepreneurs. I'm really interested, is there a difference between the way female entrepreneurs approach things and the way male entrepreneurs approach things?

Michelle Taylor 19:06

So many Debra. So, when we're when I'm sitting down with one of the guys, you know, they are very concerned, and want to talk about rates of return. How do we grow this money? What does that look like? How do we get there as quickly as possible? Whereas women are much more inclined to be looking at a goal. So for example, if I'm working with a woman that's a mom, she may want to know as long as I can retire when I want to, or sell the business when I want to, and I can take vacations when I want my kids get braces, and I can, you know, shop as I please, for the things that make us happy. She doesn't care if we get there with a 5% return or a 40% return. She just wants to get there. The guys are a little bit different. They want to chase a return. And I think it just goes back to, we're wired differently. Women are much more emotional around money. Men want the quick wins from what I've seen. Women are also a lot more conservative in nature when it comes to risk and how much cash they feel like they need to have on the sidelines for emergencies.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:21

That's interesting. Why do you think that is?

Michelle Taylor 20:24

I really don't. I mean, I've got, obviously, we can make assumptions all day. I think that part of it is just that we tend to always feel that we've got a lot of people that are counting on us and responsibilities. So I think that women in general, also, that we're just taught to be a little bit more of the safe, playing it safe, planning for a rainy day, and I think that we carry that with us as part of our money stories for a long time, always being cautious, never wanting to put the people that are counting on us or our income in a precarious situation, and I think that it can be a downfall, because money is the most expensive place to hold cash. You've got to have it working for you even while you're sleeping, and you can't do that when it's in a safe or in a separate bank account that's just sitting there, not making any money for you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:24

Yeah, it's gotta be leveraged. That's right. See, that was interesting. I just picked up a word you said, then money stories. So people have money stories running around in their head, don't they? Just like that. We have self-limiting beliefs around all kinds of things. Sure. Tell me another bit about money stories. Tell me about what that what impact that can have on a person's ability to actually leverage their money.

Michelle Taylor 21:44

You know what's so funny? I have talked to so many people, and I have found that so many are there's this negative connotation with being successful when they think about what true wealth looks like, and what rich people make them feel like. It's greed and they're not nice people. So it's quite interesting, isn't it, the stories that we hear over time and what we carry with us. So you don't want to be one of those people. You want to just have enough to be comfortable. But the reality is, you've got to chase the purpose behind the wealth. And I think that once you can change the money story in your own mind, that is the difference maker. So for me personally, you know, as somebody who had dealt with health issues, you know, 20 years ago now, even to this day, when I am pushing myself to think about big goals for the year, I struggle all the time thinking, Okay, I'm healthy. My family is healthy. I've got a great life. I don't want to ask for anymore, but once I shifted to thinking about the things I wanted to do with more money, it became easier to chase that. So I think it all goes back to just the money stories and what we think as far as abundance and how much we want and need and what we can do with that money, and when we realise that with more money comes more good that we can do for ourselves, for the people we care about, or for humanity in general. It makes it a lot more fun to chase and rewrite that story.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:32

It's really true. It is interesting. So thinking back to my parents, and again, my parents, very traditionally, they used to always kind of about the greedy shareholders and how, yeah, it was really, it was kind of almost contradictory, because they'd say that, you know, you need to work for somebody rather than have your own business. But at the same time, they'd say that these businesses were run by greedy shareholders who all wanted to make money, didn't look after their people, so that, okay, they can really mess with you when you've got those things going on, and that you're told constantly that that that's, you know, these are greedy people. It's funny how we see, we see the creation of wealth as being a greedy thing, but it actually enables all kinds of things.

Michelle Taylor 24:06

I know, and I don't really know how to change that, except for having conversations like this, I think there is something that is innately programmed in us that, you know, everybody wants more. But I think that there's this inhibitor of like, but if I want more, that is negative. So let me just want enough. But when you start to think about truly the impact that you're creating, like, going back to your point with having 14 people, your creativity, your drive, has given you a lovely life, and these 14 people that now you're giving them a good life based on income. How do we make that a wider casting? Cast a wider net. And I think it all goes back to just shifting the. Conversations we have with ourselves and with each other. It's the only way to change it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:05

No, I agree. I agree completely. Okay, so in terms of just thinking about the listeners, I'm thinking, are they sitting here listening, kind of saying, Okay, I'm probably not leveraging my money as best as I can. And I suppose one of my thing pieces of advice would be, is that just because you're a great business owner does not mean that you're a great financial wealth manager. And so I always say, Bring the experts in, right? Let the experts do what they're good at, do what you're good at, and let everybody else help you. But if they're sitting here thinking, you know, I don't even know where I'm at in terms of my finances, I don't even know whether I should be looking to get some help. What would be the key things that they should be asking themselves?

Michelle Taylor 25:42

So the number one thing I think that everybody listening should implement is, I always encourage people to build out your personal board of directors. And that may sound a little bit strange because you're not a nonprofit, but think about building out at your table the relationships that you need, and obviously that's going to differ based on where you're at, what career path you're on, what if you have children or not, how old you are, but ultimately, having those trusted relationships at your table to ensure that whatever life throws your way, you are able to be equipped with the knowledge and resources you need to get through it. So building out those relationships is huge. Knowing the questions that you need to ask to make sure that the relationship is one that is fruitful are huge. Ultimately, you know the old saying, You're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. You want to surround yourself with people that are doing really great things, that are smarter than you, because you're going to add value to each other. And as entrepreneurs, you're if you're spending too much time in your numbers and in the financial piece of your business, you're probably lacking in other areas. So you want to find people that are smarter than you to bring in the resources you need. But you also want to make sure you understand what they're doing. You don't want to put your head in the sand. You want to have a good idea. You want to know what you don't know and then understand it enough to then delegate it to others, because your time is more valuable spending it focused in areas that those people can't help you with. So bringing in the right board of directors, understanding who they are, what questions to ask, and then understanding what problem they're solving for to the extent that you need it to check their work, but then letting them delegating to them, and letting them do what they're good at, and you do what you're good at.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:47

And so when you talk about this personal board of directors, are you talking about things like peer groups being part of different organisations that can challenge your thinking? Are you talking about things we're just trying to get a sense of what you mean by that personal board of directors.

Michelle Taylor 28:02

So I would say, you know, having mentors are obviously a big deal. Mentors in business, especially for entrepreneurs, are always helpful, but somebody to help with, for example, knowing your books like a bookkeeper, really understanding what's going on. Fractional CFO, if you need them, somebody to help with taxes, an estate planning attorney, so somebody that would help with those exit strategies and trusts getting set up for your families, having a wealth manager come in, having someone like you come in that's advising on the overall businesses really just understanding all of the parts that go in, the pieces that go into the puzzle, and knowing that there is somebody out there that can navigate that piece of the Money Story, or the financial picture for you, so that you don't have to even, like a business attorney, understanding, you know, when you have contracts come across your desk or you're trying to negotiate different deals, having somebody that will understand those and walk through it with you to make sure that you're doing what's in your absolute best interest.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:18

It's kind of like the delegate and elevate tool we talk about in business, right? If you, if you can just stick to what you're really good at and what you love, that's where you'll add the most value, let everybody else do the things that you are not so good at and perhaps don't like, because that's the worst space to be in, because A, you're going to make mistakes because it's not your wheelhouse, and B, it's one of those things where you're doing stuff, if you're doing stuff you're not good at and you don't like, you're in that, that Negative headspace, and it's, you know, it's like, when I'm it's not when I'm doing the cleaning at home, and I don't do it very often. I do have a cleaner these days, but, you know, whenever I was doing it, I could do it, I was okay in it, but it was more that I just, I hated it. I sit there going, oh my goodness, I can't believe I'm doing this. I hate cleaning more. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's what we're talking about, isn't it? It's kind of delegating. And elevating so you're doing. The stuff that you love and are really great at.

Michelle Taylor 30:01

That's right. And so often we find ourselves stuck in doing tasks that are $10 tasks, instead of delegating those out and focusing on the things that are going to make you as profitable as possible as a business owner.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:18

Absolutely. Okay, so that's the first right tips to get yourself personal board of directors, make sure you've got those knowledge. And the reason those knowledge and the resources that you actually need to allow yourself to really work in your zone of genius, that you can then do the things that will add the most value to your business. What other top tips do you have for us?

Michelle Taylor 30:34

I would say that you want to determine how much cash you really need to keep access to so that you're off of the roller coaster of being a business owner, you want to make sure that you have enough to keep the business running if something terrible were to happen. You know, the people that were the best equipped to get through COVID were the ones that had enough cash to keep things running. But at the same time, you don't want to have too much. You want to understand your business enough to know what the goal is. If the goal is to keep things status quo, or is it to grow and scale? Is it to hire new people to hit these milestones we have for ourselves? And then once you know what that number is that you need, taking the money to grow and scale your business and making sure you're doing so in a way that if you needed access to that capital, you can get to it to deploy it to, let's say, buy a new building, if something comes up and that's going to help you, you want to make sure that you've got enough money at your disposal if you need it, but that it's not sitting in cash. So that finding that that sweet spot is critical, I think, to business owners, especially ones that want to grow in scale.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:50

I think that's a really good point, actually. Because, you know, sometimes you Well, I think, you know, do you know what? Always said that they got 10 it's a 10 year cycle in business, right? So for every 10 years, you've got six kind of average years, you've got two amazing years, and then two years that will really, could potentially put you out of business. And it's like understanding what that looks like and what you need access to. And I think you've said it earlier, you know, access to capital. There's no point in putting all your money away somewhere you can't get to it if you need it. But at the same time, that Converse side of that is having cash, which isn't making you any money. So there's always a fine balance between leverage and getting the most out of it, right?

Michelle Taylor 32:23

Yes, and that is where you know you and I could easily say this is that spot. But the reality is, there's no cookie cutter solution. You need to find your board of directors to help figure out what that number is, what the sweet spot is that's going to allow you financial freedom to be able to sleep at night and have to worry about payroll so that your daughter isn't coming in watching you upset. Right to pay those people that work for you, but also that your money is working for you or able to be leveraged to grow and scale. That is something that you probably need experts to help you determine

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:05

Absolutely. It's not our wheelhouse with business, business people, it's right. I get it, okay. And the third and final tip?

Michelle Taylor 33:12

I would say the third and final tip, is to stay away from shiny objects. You know, it's so easy. It's so easy to think that you don't want to spend $1 to just save 30 cents. And what I mean by that is just because something, you can buy something and it will help if you don't truly need it. You want to protect that. You want to protect those dollars, if at all possible. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And a lot of times, business owners will say, Oh, let me. Let me buy these new vehicles or buy this new equipment because I've got some extra money sitting here, not because it's a necessity, and at the end of the day, that capital can be deployed somewhere else. So stay away from shiny objects. Stay focused on the big picture, and only buy things that you need in order to continue growing and scaling.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  34:05

It is interesting is because, of course, we are visionaries, and visionaries do get very distracted by bright, shiny objects and you can always justify it. I can always justify every expense. Oh, yeah. But this all, yeah, but actually, when I look back in hindsight, there's some, some really poor decisions I've made around buying things that really didn't add any value, or they sit there and never get used. But I think also it's it comes down to not just buying things, but it's signing up for that next piece of software. It's signing up for that next course. It's signing up for so many things that you know that get dangled in front of you. I need that. And it took me a little while. I'm now 54 and a half, and I think it took me, it took me a number of years, to realise I didn't need any more courses or any more qualifications or any more software or anything, it was like, actually I have enough. It's just about making the most of what I actually have, rather than always chasing the next thing.

Michelle Taylor 34:52

Well, that's right, and there will be those things that are few and far between that you think, okay, I need to reinvest in this software, or whenever this. This new certification is to keep up with the times, because our industries are always changing. But to your point, out of 100 things that are dangled in front of your face, maybe there's a handful that will actually help you continue getting to what the true mission is, and that should be the end of the yellow brick road that you've walked through and planned with your board of directors.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  35:24

Fantastic. Hey, Michelle, there's some really good tips in there. So I'm gonna say the first thing is, make sure we've got our personal board of directors. Get the knowledge and the resources you need. You need to understand how much cash you actually needs, that you're making the most so you're not putting too much away in cash, but you are. You've got enough that you can actually have access to capital attendee, if you need it, and that will help you get off the roller coaster, which I know can be a challenge in the entrepreneurship. And then that bright shiny object syndrome is make sure that you're actually buying things that you that you really need and will add value to the business, as opposed to the next bright shiny object.

Michelle Taylor 35:56

Indeed.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  35:57

Perfect. Hey, look, I really enjoyed talking to it's been a lot of fun this morning. I know that you do. You're quite passionate about helping women entrepreneurs, and you have a programme that actually helps them. Just tell me a little bit about that.

Michelle Taylor 36:08

Sure. So um, in talking to probably between five and 10,000 business owners over the last decade, a lot of women have the same like I mentioned, commonalities, so it was really important for me to give them a community and membership platform where they were able to self-pace on education, learn what's out there, access to resources, community masterminds, expert Q and A's, and that Is my women in wealth community. So that's at womeninwealth.co the entire premise of it is to change the way women think and feel about money, allow them access to, sometimes information that's shared on golf courses and not amongst us. We need to do a better job as women in general, just of talking about money, not making it such a taboo topic. So yeah, I have a community and membership platform that I'm hoping will help be the conduit of change for a lot of women.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:15

That's fantastic. We'll make sure that that link is in the podcasting as well as the link to your team profile as well. People get in contact with they need to but Michelle, thank you so much for spending the time with me this morning. I really appreciate it.

Michelle Taylor 37:25

Thanks so much for having me. Debra, it was a lot of fun.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:29

It was indeed. Thank you.