Scott Rusnak: Saying No Isn’t Selfish, It’s EOS in Practice

Scott Rusnak  00:00

I'll bet that 70% of entrepreneurs are burnt out. And burnout doesn't mean you're completely done. It could be just like a match. There's stages of burnout each week. You don't want to tackle a problem that you could tackle. So we need to have a bigger purpose. Yes, we've got the business headed in the right direction. Yes, we've got a great family, we think? But what is the purpose? What are you really fighting for as an entrepreneur, to keep you fascinated?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:32

Welcome to another episode of Better Business, better life. I am your podcast host, Debra Chantry Taylor, and I'm passionate about helping entrepreneurs live their ideal lives by creating a better business.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:50

I'm going to jump straight into it today. We have got a guest on the show who is no stranger to most of you. He has been named as msn.com, top leading speakers to follow in 2025 he has built multiple world class tech companies, competing with the likes of Apple, etc, and he is the author of the book The Entrepreneur's Field Guide, who is the architect of your life. Scott has been on the show a couple of times before, and he's shared some amazing wisdom and knowledge with us. Today, he is going to talk about why saying no might be the most important thing that you do. And he's going to share how we can actually decide when to say no and how to say it effectively. I'm really proud to have my good friend, Scott Rusnak, who is an expert EOS implementer, join us again on the show to share more of his knowledge and wisdom. Welcome to the show, Scott. Welcome back to the show, Scott, great to have you here again. Thrilled to be back. Yeah, we've had you on the show a couple of times now, if people haven't listened in the past, Scott did a couple of really great episodes. One was about building a business legacy, and the other one was about designing your life before somebody else does. And they've probably been two of the most listened to episodes on the series. So obviously, some great insight there. So I invited Scott back on again today to talk about something a little bit different this time. But before we get started, for those who don't know who you are, why don't you tell us a bit about about Scott. Who is Scott? Where does he come from? What does he do?

Scott Rusnak  02:14

Do you want the short form or the long form? Oh, let's go with the long form. Go on, give it a go. Oh, wow. Okay, grew up in Western Canada, which is a crazy thing. I thought I was going to be a professional hockey player, a professional cyclist. And when I was a kid, I always thought that school was a good place to go to eat your lunch, so I was more passionate about other things. So yeah, just kind of really had a sporting mindset. But it's funny, as I got older and started to get my teeth knocked out playing hockey and bled all over the road racing my bike, I was convinced by my cycling coach, who became a very big influence on my life, that I should probably go to school. And going to school, the Dean of this degree I took, and I'll tell you about it later, he realised that I had a lot more potential than I thought I had, and he allowed me, and this is when school was quite affordable in Western Canada, allowed me to take business, computer science, geography, accounting, and I really had a blast. And it took me five and a half years to finish my degree, which was kind of my own thing. And I realised that if you ask and you put it out there and connect with people, you can design your own life, which is, I'm a big fan of.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:25

I think it's so true and I but I think sometimes people don't they're too afraid to ask. And I always got told by my dad that, you know, you should always ask, because what's the worst that can happen is they can say no, and if they say no, well then you know, you're still further ahead, because you've actually asked, whereas you might have got to know anyway. So yeah, so I think it's a great, great philosophy, but so tell me so you've got this self designed degree.

Scott Rusnak  03:47

I guess we'll give you the answer later, because all of your viewers will fast stop, and they'll stop listening right now, if I tell you what it is right now. But nonetheless, I leave college, and my uncle had an advertising agency, so I sold ads. And then he introduced me some corporate people, and they taught me how to sell software way back in the day when dinosaurs were roaming this earth. In the late 80s, software was kicking in, and I got really lucky and really learned for two or three years how to build a software career. Really understood technology and came up with a couple of crazy ideas that then became some businesses that I grew for a long time.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:25

Okay, fantastic. And then after that, because that's not what you're doing these days.

Scott Rusnak  04:30

Well, so about four or five years into starting my own software business called school logic, we were in Western Canada competing against Apple. My friends thought I was crazy and I'd go broke at any minute, and I almost did a couple times. I realised the internet wasn't there yet, and I'd have to fly all over the place, and especially the states, to service my clients. I asked my wife, and I told her, hey, look, we're going to need to move to the states if I'm going to pull this business off and really get there. So about 12 to 14 months later, we. Successfully immigrated to the states, got turned away many times at the border. Was really frustrating. But I grew a business called school logic into about 3000 schools around North America and Europe. And while doing that, a friend of mine was starting this last minute tea time service called golf now, so I was kind of working in these two businesses. I'm a visionary. There's a million things going on. I would bring in these teachers, consultants, coaches, scaling up. Came into the business. I had some really smart management consultants come in. And it wasn't until I read that faithful book traction, and met Gino that I realised there's an easier way to do this. And after I exited those businesses. Mr. Whitman said to me, you're a better coach than a CEO. Join us and him and a couple of good friends of mine, it just became obvious this is the right spot. And gosh, oh wait, I left those businesses. Here we are 2025 and I get to do what I love to do.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  05:58

Fantastic. And you're expert EOS implementer now, and you're working with businesses to help them to gain the same kind of traction that you learned about in that book applied to your businesses.

Scott Rusnak  06:08

Yeah, now I was having a conversation with a client earlier today. EOS is so simple, the tools are so simple, we've dumbed it down. But the crazy part is the hardest stuff to conquer in EOS is this healthy and smart team. People can get smarter, but it's that healthy dynamic. And when teams come together and they start to realise that it's teamwork is the ultimate competitive advantage. And if we can design our VTO our business plan with a healthy, smart team, with the right people in the right seats, with a people analyzer and a great coach like you, Debra, they start to get what they want from their business and then their life, and it really does mesh together.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:48

It's pretty cool. I'd say I've been doing a lot less time than you have, but certainly for me, it is. It's been a game changer for my clients. Has been a game changer for me. I mean, with the work that we do is just so meaningful. And as you said, it's not just about the business. I mean, when you create a better business, it enables those leaders to actually a better life. And that's part of my passion, is actually seeing them enjoy both sides of it, because often we go into business, we think we're going to have more freedom, more money, more everything. And it doesn't always work out quite like that, and we find ourselves overwhelmed, stressed out, burned out, and not really finding the time to spend time with our people that we love, doing things that we love. And so I, as you said, it's simple, but if you can, if you can get it right, it also makes a massive difference in both areas of your life.

Scott Rusnak  07:31

Really hard. In fact, I was talking with a really good friend of mine, Dan Sullivan, who is the strategic coach, and he's now 75 and he says, Scott, you know, the problem is entrepreneurs that become successful, they have freedom of time because they have freedom of money. And the problem with that comes from that is that idle hands are not a good thing for entrepreneurs. So we need to have a bigger purpose. Yes, we've got the business headed in the right direction. Yes, we've got a great family, we think. But what is the purpose? What are you really fighting for as an entrepreneur, to keep you fascinated so we can help you get that part straight. But the next level, which we'll talk about in this podcast, is, what are you doing with your life? Are you making sure that it's fascinating and that the most important people in your life are along for the ride, but they know what the ride looks like. It's not picking them up one day and going on a ride. So it's becoming really intentional with your life.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  08:26

And we talked about in previous podcasts with you, it's it had a it was a little light bulb moment for me, because I think I was always bending over backwards to kind of fit everybody in. And actually found myself being really stretched and not having the time for myself and for the things that were important for me. And so just taking on board your very simple philosophy of looking at, you know, at least a year ahead, and saying, what is it I want to do and where do I want to spend time, and thinking about your personal life as well as your professional life, and building those time out into your calendar, it's made a significant difference.

Scott Rusnak  08:58

It's good and yeah, the smallest word in the human language is the hardest one for most people to let out of their mouth. Babies learn this word, you know, maybe sometimes it's the first, it's mom, Mama, Dada or no. And as adults, we're afraid to develop that discipline of saying no and then saying yes to the right things. Because for me, Debra state knows about reclaiming control over your time, your focus, and who you really want to spend your time with, so it becomes a big deal for me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:33

Yeah, and you're right. It's a tiny little word, word, and it is a it's a very difficult one, because I think I'm a reformed people pleaser. And so as a people pleaser, you know, you want to actually help keep everybody happy, help everybody. And as I've gotten older, and I'm 54 and a half at the moment, so about to turn 55 this year, I've realised that, you know, sometimes the things that be say no to is what really defines the joy in your life. Because I was often saying yes to things because I didn't want to disappoint somebody. Even though it wasn't necessarily something that I wanted to do or gave me great joy.

Scott Rusnak  10:05

Ah, well put. And by the way, looking pretty good. So good job on being 34 you said, is that the number?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:11

I wish. Actually, I don't wish. I'm loving being in my 50s, probably the best 10 years of my life so far. So it's all good. So why do we struggle with saying no? Do you think?

Scott Rusnak  10:21

Well, you said it earlier. As a kid, I tried to please my coaches, my teachers, my parents, my friends, and I got nowhere with it, and it wasn't until my coach, my mentor in cycling, just said, Scott, you gotta say yes to the right opportunities. So why not enter races that you think you can win? And in business or in life, you can't win everything, but you've got to step back and say, does the yes align with my values, my purpose and the people I want to be with? Because if it doesn't, maybe that's a small step to be able to say, I'm going to build the muscle memory of saying no, I don't have the capacity for that, or I'm going to rehearse how I'm going to say no, I'm sorry. I've got a commitment with my wife, my spouse, my dog, whatever it may be, most people want to please others, and they're not pleasing themselves first.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:07

But it's there's a really important part there is that you have to actually know where you want to go and what your values are. Otherwise it's hard to actually assess that and say, Does this fit, or doesn't it fit? And I think often as business owners, we're really good at the business stuff, you know, having the long term plans, knowing what wanna achieve with the business. But many people don't put quite as much effort into their personal life, do they?

Scott Rusnak  11:27

You don't. And I'll go back to that personal life. People are like, Oh, you're being selfish by saying, No, I'll disagree. It's called self care at EOS, we talk about clarity breaks, and I'm a fan of taking extended clarity breaks on the weekend, three hours by myself on the mountain bike in the mornings, a clarity break with my wife and our puppy. When we go for a walk, it's really good. During the day, I say no to things, so I've got a half an hour to an hour slot just to reset as well.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:57

That's cool. Clarity breaks really important. It's interesting that you said self care. Renee Russo, another, EOS implemented myself, talked about the word selfish, because I've always thought selfish is a really negative term. But she asked me, What did I think it actually meant? And it's like, well, selfish, it's like being a little bit of yourself, like putting a little bit of yourself first. It's like, yes, actually it is. It's a positive. It's being selfish means taking a bit of time for yourself, which is not an awful thing, looks good.

Scott Rusnak  12:22

And when you take time for yourself, your focus is going to sharpen, your impact is going to grow, and you're going to feel more aligned than ever. And when you come home at the end of the day, or whatever it may be, you've got that mental, physical, emotional energy to really dig in with the people you love the most. So don't be afraid to say no, and don't be afraid to put your hand up and say, I don't have capacity for that.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:46

So for people who are listening in, who are perhaps saying, Look, this all sounds great, but, you know, I used to be a no over explainer as well. So when I would say no, I would go into huge amounts of detail around, you know, why I couldn't do it. And that would then actually give the person a chance to counteract all of that and come back with other, you know, and almost pressure me into not that they were doing it deliberately, but they, you know, they wanted me to say yes. And so they would use the no and the explanation as a way to kind of dig back in. And then, of course, as a people, please, I'll be okay, right? I will do it. So how do you say no, effectively, how do you ensure that you're not leaving the door open for somebody to try and wiggle their way back in, isn't it?

Scott Rusnak  13:21

Goose bump moment for me, Debra, and you've seen me talk a handful of times, and you know, we've got to build. I'm going to start at the macro level. You've got to have a 12 month calendar in front of you. So today, let's say you're watching this in June or July, get a 12 month calendar and big build up the next 12 months and put in the most important things you're going to do with the five to six people you loved most. So get those big activities in first. So those are the your most important people. And I always refer to Dunbar's number. He talks about the five most important people, your family, your loved ones. So build that out and then pull it back a little bit and then say, okay, what are the things I'm going to do on a 90 day level, a monthly level and a weekly level? And get straight on those most important people first, just the ones you can impact the most. So do that for the year, and I'll shrink it down real quick. And look at your week and ask yourself, when you're at your best client I met with yesterday, Tim Graham. He's the CTO of this really cool company called hidden level, and it's like Scott got all these opportunities people pulling me in all kinds of directions. And I asked him, What day a week are you saying no to everything? He picks Sunday. I said, Okay, well, what are you doing Friday to make sure your weekend is ready, and your Sunday's nothing, and when you show up on Monday, you're ready to go. So now what he's got his two most important days are Friday afternoon to make his plans shut down for the week and make sure when Monday shows up he's good. Saturday is more for his family, and Sunday is for him. So when he jumps into the week, Monday, he's ready to go sleep in bed. Or he's happier, he's healthier. So that was a lot for your listeners. Start macro and then don't be afraid to go right down at the week and say, am I designing that week so that I'm ready to go when Monday shows up?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:13

Great idea. Yeah, because you're like getting the macro means you've got the entire year kind of planner. But if you don't make the time throughout the week, to plan and to think about what's coming up and to sort of close things off, then you're always just running into the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, aren't you?

Scott Rusnak  15:29

Yeah, yeah. And I kind of look at it, it's like a lot of people that we work with are athletes, entrepreneurs, artists. They're committed to success, and we're a lot like them, because we're willing to push harder and grind longer than anyone else. But I also know that despite our willingness to work way harder, when you're working hard, your work can be scattered and lack focus. So you can be self sabotaging without saying, oh, so really design that year, that week, and you could do the same thing with your day. The same idea can apply now.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:00

I know when I asked you to come onto the podcast, you shared some things with me about what we're going to talk about. And one of the things was you shared a little table, which I'll share in the notes as well, but it was around how and when to say no. And so I guess this is where, again, people pleasers reform. People pleasers will struggle sometimes or say, you know, when do I actually say no? And then how do I actually do that? So do you want to share a little bit of how you do that? So somebody comes to you and goes, Scott, I really want you to come on my podcast. And thank goodness you said yes to me. But it's like, you know, you would be perfectly fine if you'd said no, but how do you say no?

Scott Rusnak  16:32

Yeah, and I'm thrilled you're going to show this little PDF, because this PDF I actually keep in my back pocket. I'm looking at it right now, and as much as I've got the muscle memory, it's, think of it like a golfer, a PGA Tour golfer they're playing in the Masters. It's the last 18 hole. Well, they've got a caddy, and they've got a little cheat fee for each hole and how the green rolls out. So if you're having a hard time saying, I'll print this little PDF. So the first thing I do, Debra, I'm looking at it. It's assess the request. Is this aligned with my values, my purpose, my priorities, and we set rocks. Hey, does this align? Is gonna allow me to get there? Well, this podcast does, because you and I are aligned on values. We were talking about them before. We have a similar purpose. We wanna help people get within one other business in their life, and then there's no ego. Really fun. We're trying to be humble and help people. So the flip side is, if you were egotistical, you were Turkey, get some interesting requests. If they don't fit who I'm trying to project and who I'm trying to be, that's a pretty easy, no, yeah, that can be hard to do, so you've got to you've got to rehearse your responses, but you've got to be honest and direct. And when it's a no, you completely but firmly explain why. I don't have the capacity for that. My wife and I go on a date every weekend, and this is the day I'm really short. Someone might ask, How about next weekend? I'm sure that doesn't work. It can get trickier if they don't fit your core values. All you need to say is, you know, I'm booked up through the year. You're a great guy. I hope I bump into you again. I've got to go. And that might sound rude to some people, but that's practising empathy, you know, tell them they're nice. Tell them they're really nice to see you again. I'm super slanted. I apologise.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:24

So it's okay, okay, I like it. So it's still about being you still have empathy, some kindness there, but it's just about being firm.

Scott Rusnak  18:31

Yeah, and you're taking care of yourself, but you've gotta be consistent. You've gotta make sure that your response is polite. You're prioritising your time, and that empathy is important as well, and it's okay to stop. If someone asked you for more of your time, you can say, yeah, what's going on? You know, I've got 15 minutes. So put an outline. Hey, I've got about 15 minutes before I've got to run. What's going on? Can I help you with anything? And Debra, I have to tell you, I learned this the hard way. I have lost some friends due to health, mental health and other health things, and I don't think I practised enough empathy. Just really ask them, hey, is there something I can help you with? I've got a bit of time. Can we dig in? And sometimes you've just got to say no, and sometimes there's a reason to say yes.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  19:22

Perfect. It is interesting. I was thinking as you were talking, you know, when you've you said that you need to prioritise, obviously, the people that are most important to you. And I know that you follow the Dunbar principle, and you've got your five and yours in 515, 50, whatever the magic numbers are. And I know that you're also, because we talked about in a previous episode, you are really clear to those people about the you know, the where they fit within your life. Does this mean that you also have a plan for your personal life, with your wife, with your puppy? Do you have a VTO? Do you know where you're headed? Do you know what you know? How do you decide? Do you review that every year and look at the 515, 50 friends. How do you plan your life from outside of work?

Scott Rusnak  19:59

I'm pretty fired up now. Case in point, at a really nice invitation from a friend to go up north. He's got a really nice cabin with his wife. And I said, I can't I'm just getting back from a big trip. Returned from DC. I've got the weekend, but on Sunday afternoon, I gotta fly to San Diego. It's like, Oh, we'll get you back in time. I said, I've got to prepare, and I've got to be mentally ready with this client. I've been working with him for years, and if I drop the ball, I'm going to look like a fool. He understood it. Now we had another opportunity to go up there, and he said, Oh, and some other people coming. It's going to be a big party, and this was a couple of years ago, and this guy is a great friend. I've said, you know, I can't do that. I'll call Fred. I can't do that. There's couple they don't align with our core values, and I've seen some things that don't really put them or me in the right spotlight. I don't want to be surrounded by that, because I'm then going to be viewed in that light as well. And he was like, wow, I hadn't thought about it that way. So I just tell people exactly that. And maybe I'm not, you know, the world's favourite person, but my wife loves me and the most important people I'm good with.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:09

And it's that honesty and directness, right? It's a you're not, you're not trying to hold back and keep it in some kind of mysterious reason why you said no. You've actually explained why you said no, which I think is really important, because then they have an understanding. And it sounds like for that person, there's a little bit of a light bulb moment for him as well, in terms of thinking about, I hadn't really thought about that. So you're helping other people to potentially clarify their boundaries and think about what effect it has on them.

Scott Rusnak  21:33

Well, and then we've got to be tricky, you know, kind of crossing my mind my arms, because nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. The invites are fewer and fewer. I'm okay with that, right? There's some people have fear of missing out. I know my dog does. My dog wants to be involved in everything.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:49

You said it was a puppy, new dog. Have you got a new puppy?

Scott Rusnak  21:52

She's five. She's still acts like, Yeah, same me. Okay. I'm a terrible dog trainer, so don't hire me as your dog trainer, but we love her, yeah?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:01

So tell me about the puppy you were saying.

Scott Rusnak  22:04

Yeah, Roxy, she's a mini Woodle. She's like a mix between a Wheaton and poodle, poodle, yes, kind of funky. She's 25 pounds a tonne of energy. Runs like a thoroughbred, and, yeah, she runs her life.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:17

I love it, as you know, I've got my two mini Schnauzers, and so Apollo's 10, and whom is his four and a half. And we actually had them on the podcast yesterday. I had the film crew come in, and they filmed that what we can learn from dogs. So my dogs, I always say, they're part of the coaching team. They help with my coaching. And it was about what the things we can learn from dogs. And some of the things that they talked about was, you know, the fact that you should always be kind, and that you should, you know, enjoy if every moment be present in the moment? Oh, range of things.

Scott Rusnak  22:44

It was actually quite fun. You know what? There's a lady who wrote a book called C, U, E, S, and I can't remember her name, but well, I'll get it to you so you can put it in the links. I'm a fan of body language and all the rest. And when you look at your dogs and their eyes and their ears and the way they move, we can learn a lot from dogs. It's, I can't say I can read Roxy's mind, but I know when she's not happy. I know when she Stokes and she's all fired up. So I think dogs and humans, we can learn a lot from each other.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:14

Absolutely. And that's a complete squirrel alert there. But anyway, it was good. It was good to go find that now you have you talked about the fact that you use your time when you're walking the dog or when you're cycling to kind of have that clarity of thought and clarity break. And I know you just got back from an amazing trip. Do you want to just quickly tell us a little bit about the trip that you've done and any lessons that you learned from that trip?

Scott Rusnak  23:35

Well, the biggest lesson I learned was about 15 years ago, so this I promise we'll get to the trip, my wife and I were going through some problems, and when we went through some counselling, we realised the counsellor helped us land on the fact that we love to travel and we love to have big things moving forward. So I'm on this voyage, this journey, to be in 100 countries by the time I'm 100 and my wife and I love like, here's where we're going. Put it on the calendar. It's going to be fun. So this trip, we were in Madrid, rode our bikes to Porto, Portugal, sort of drove down the coast, tried to surf the hugest wave, the biggest wave in the world, but it was one foot that day. Oh no, and it was okay. Went to Lisbon, and then we went to Morocco. So if anyone's listening to this, they're afraid to go to Morocco. Oh my gosh. Gotta go fake his place in the world, and we spent time in Marrakech, but I rode my bike over and back the Atlas mountain centre was just spectacular. It was like the greatest clarity break in the history of the world. My assistant, Melissa, took care of everything while I was gone, I tried not to think about too much work. I came home, I'm just fired up to get going again.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:41

And I think this is the thing that we forget. It's like our brain actually does need time out. If it is always busy, if it's always on the go, it's going to be really hard. We're then starting to react from a very different place, and the decisions we make are not as clear as when we've actually had a bit of rest time, and we can burn ourselves out. I think that there's a real danger from. Of entrepreneurs is that they feel like they have to keep going, and then they're just getting themselves into that spiral of busyness and clouded mind and not being able to make that clarity, those clarity decisions.

Scott Rusnak  25:11

Well, I'll bet that 70% of entrepreneurs are burnt out. That's like a big like, and people will challenge me, you're wrong. What do you mean? But if they take a look at themselves, like, are they snappy with their responses? Are they ready to go? And burnout doesn't mean you're completely done. It could be just like a match. It could be an hour of burnout. It could be a day of burnout. So really gotta ask yourself, like, Are you filling your soul? Are you resting your mind? Are you your diet, your friends, the whole thing, because there's stages of burnout every day. There's stages of burnout each week. You don't want to tackle a problem that you could tackle years ago in a minute, and those things weigh on us. So you nailed it, Debra, we've got to take time every day, every week. And those big things, I call them tent poles.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:58

Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right, because I think burnt out burnout is used a lot. But it isn't people imagine. It's where you're literally, you know, rocking in a corner, not able to move and completely have lost everything. But it's not that. It's just actually burnout can be you're right. You get you can see yourself getting sappy with people you can see have a very short temper or short fuse. You can see that the decisions you make are very kind of quick and not necessarily the right decisions. And I think that we all suffer from that. So it's about being able to recognise those signals and go, Okay, maybe it's time for me to actually take a little bit of time out.

Scott Rusnak  26:30

Client, a technology client in San Francisco. And it was interesting, they had graduated from EOS about a year and a half ago, and the integrator called me said, hey, we'd like for you to come back in. We really had a bad quarterly. Our CTO has started to work in a co working spot because he didn't like the energy in the office, and he started getting his mindset that he needs to be going 20 hours a day and pushing him so hard that he could put two years of work in and then take a year off, and everyone was telling you that this is the cycle of it all. And I came back in as a coach, and I worked as his executive coach. I'm like, let's just call him Fred again. You're wrong. You need to have those pauses every day and every week, and by the way, you're surrounding yourself with the wrong people, so you can make a decision to fire me today. But I want you to get out of that coworking space. I need you to come to a more reasonable space and just clear your mind of all this crap. And once he did all that, everything worked out again. He took a couple weeks off at Christmas, and he's taking more time with his family. He's just so much better and so much more productive.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:35

It's been interesting. I know that with the people book having come out a little while ago from EOS, it really got me back into some of those people tools in more depth and really exploring how they can actually work. And there's a lot of Eos tools that can help with this kind of stuff. So you've got your delegate and elevate tool. You've got your understanding what your own personal core focus is and how that fits into it, but also how all your team and what your team members core focus is, and how they can add the most value to the business as well. So I think that sometimes we forget that we may not be the right person to be doing it. We may be trying to take on too much, and we've got a team around us who can actually help to for us to delegate things to them, so we can actually free ourselves up to do the things that will really add the most value to the business.

Scott Rusnak  28:18

I love the fact you talked about individuals, core focus, their purpose. Got involved with this group forever ago, Google, and they realised that the people in it, the engineers, are like, Oh, we don't want to be managed. Like, whoa. What do you mean? You don't want to be managed? Well, we don't like to be micromanaged. We like to really make things happen. But when they spun it on its head and said, No, we want to help you with your career aspirations and make sure that aligns what we're doing here at Google and where we're headed. They're like, Oh, that sounds really good. And then they tricked him. I said, Well, that's what being managed is all about, understanding your personal purpose and your business purpose and then help you achieve both. That's a great leader and that's a great manager. So Good on you for referring to that people book, because it's a big deal.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:04

It is, and I think you know that because, as you said, the EOS tools are so simple in terms of the foundationals, but there's also a lot more that goes in behind to support it. And a lot of the work that we do is not just about bringing the business, getting the business right, but it's about helping the people to be the best possible versions of themselves, help people to be greater leaders and managers, and as you said, so they can actually do the things, not micromanaging, but make the most of their people and get the most out of their people.

Scott Rusnak  29:30

Would you mind moving to San Diego or Scottsdale, Arizona? I've got a client who's got offices in both places. That would be perfect for you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:39

Excellent. Maybe not. I'm already moving to Melbourne, and that's a big enough move for them. Move at the moment. Yeah. Okay, cool. So if we go back, if we go back to the no thing again, I just want to really, sort of, you know, I suppose you know, we call it, put a bow around this, that. So if we think about the important things, so the important things are, you've got to know where you're going. You've got to know what's important to you. You've got to know what your core values are. Because, with. Without any of that, you can't actually make a decision about whether it's the right, if there is a yes or no. That's, is that the first part,

Scott Rusnak  30:06

Yes, absolutely. And then think of your day as a bucket. You could think of it as a bucket of water, or, you know, it could be going in or out. You decide which you want to look at it. But think of it as having those boundaries, and you only have so much capacity. You can't drink the whole bucket in a minute. You can't drink it in a day. Maybe you can pour it on a plant, but if you're putting things in, it's going to overflow and it's going to be a big mess. So you've really got to set those boundaries.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:36

I like the bucket analogy. It's really clear. I hadn't thought about that perfect. Okay, so tell Give me three, three top tips or tools. Tell me the three top things you would recommend people do if they're struggling with their bucket overflowing.

Scott Rusnak  30:50

First thing I would do is go to something I call, well, it's called Dunbar's number, and I love talking about it. Who are the five most important people in your life? Write their names down, and then who the next 12 to 15 most important people that you want to be in touch with every 3060, 90 days. And then here's the tricky part. Look at that wider circle and write down all the names of the people you saw in the last 12 months you saw physically and you have a relationship with, and really put a check beside the names of people you want to be with. So that's step one. Then number two, take a look at your calendar. Sit down with your partner, your spouse, your dog, your mentor, your coach, whoever it is, and quit the most important people. Find some spots where you can spend some time with them, and then start to look for spots you can put the other people in. So there's the two things.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:40

Can I just share something about that? So when you originally shared that with me, and as I've said to you, behind me is my calendar, it was amazing. I started putting in, you know, long weekends away, because Steve and I loved going out with the dogs. We loved cycling. We liked having long weekends to sort of spend time together. But I'd never make the time for it, because I was always so busy with work that we I could never find the time. And so at the very first year that you shared this with me, a few years ago, now, I put those long weekends in, and our big, long holiday as well, and we've stuck to it religiously. And it's been, it has been fantastic to know that they're there, because then it's easier to say no, because when somebody says, Oh, well, we'd like to do a session with you on this Friday. So I'm sorry I'm not here this Friday. We're going away. But if you haven't got that in there, it's easy to keep filling those spaces with people asking the question. So I just wanted to share that because I think it's really important. Is the stuff you're talking about. It's practical, it's pragmatic, and it works.

Scott Rusnak  32:32

I hear it every day, and it's like it really and if I get hit by a lightning bolt right now and I'm finished off this earth, that just makes me happy, because so many people are doing that now. So then the third one is, want people to be really careful. So the third one's tricky. The people that are in that wider group that you don't want to spend time with, don't cross them out, don't throw their name in the fireplace, don't break up with them. Because sometimes people are like, Nope, don't want to be with you. You don't fit my core values. Don't do that. Just let it be surround yourself with the right people. And if those people want to come back to you that don't fit your core values and don't fit your purpose, make sure you have the conversation with them. Be like, you know, the interesting thing, the human body changes every six years, and I've changed, and here's the direction I'm going in, and I like hanging out with you, but I've kind of got all these spend with this commitments this year. Can we revisit this in 90 to 180 days and just see what they say? If they want to come back in your life and you realise they've changed and you've changed, maybe there's an opportunity to keep the door open, but if they haven't, it's okay to say, you know, you're awesome, you're a great person, but I'm headed in this direction. Would you mind if I, you know, we pick this up later this year or the following? And it might sound like a breakup, but it's not. It's just taking care of yourself.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:57

I'm really fascinated now, so I want to know, has there been anybody? Because I know you're very good at doing this with your friends and your circle of friends. Has there been anybody who actually has come back into your life? Because there, there has been a change. Because these are the human body changes every six years. So there been a time where you've moved apart, and then you've both, you know, come back together and realise there actually is a now, a fit.

Scott Rusnak  34:18

Try not to get a model now, go on, yeah, but a very close, near and dear friend and his wife not gonna say names. People in our community will figure this out, if they're listening to it. We were in a same business together more than 15 years. One was successful, one was a massive public failure. It was embarrassing, but we didn't. Had no idea we had there's some extenuating forces, external things that happened. It was really hard on our friendship, and it was kind of one of those we didn't say, let's take a break, but we kind of did. And when we got back in the community together, we had several conversations of like, possum, great fear, lobia, missile sort itself. Out, and there was never anything acrimonious, like you're a jerk, it was your fault. Well, full circle, 18 years now, crazy tight, planning a vacation with them again next year, year out like a big fear for a week. And our wives get along. It's just wonderful. And we're more aligned than we ever thought we would be. I'm going to be 60 next year, and things do change. So don't put such a line in the ground that you can't go backwards, because that's just that would be a mistake.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  35:32

Yeah, it is. I think I'm sitting here reflecting, self, reflecting and thinking in my past, I've been very I may have been guilty of that in terms of, you know what? It's over, it's not going to happen, but you but you're right. I mean, I have You're right. I mean, I have, I've got friends who I might have had a falling out with a little while ago, who've actually come back in and out. You know, it's one of my best friends. So it I like the idea of, yes, you can pause, you can be clear that we're not going to or necessarily spend time together in the near future, but it's nice to be able to keep that door open.

Scott Rusnak  35:58

Well, the title of this podcast could be go to minute 36 and 15 seconds and rust acts. Gonna swear. I won't swear, but Don't f it up. I wish I could tell my younger self that Don't f it up, saying, oh, is fine, but it's not effing it up. It's not effing up a relationship. It's not going to such an extreme that we've inflicted harm on someone else. That's just not, that's not fair at all.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:24

Yeah, I have to say, one of the things I have been finding quite useful recently, because I can be a bit hot, hot headed at times, is actually using AI to not write things for me, but to help me so that when I want to, sort of, you know, because I used to be a bit of a keyboard warrior, and I'd sort of suddenly, you know, send an email back, and all of the frustration, all that would come through on that. So, yeah, it's never worked really well, to be fair. And so I'm now using the likes of chat GP to just kind of go, this is what I'm thinking about saying, and using the feedback. And I've got some special prompts in there to make sure I'm not getting all of the always, the beautiful stuff that AI always tells you how amazing and wonderful you are. I've got to be critical. I've got it to give me the black hat version and everything else. And it's really good, because just having that conversation backwards and forwards with an AI bot can actually help you kind of go, oh yeah, actually, that does look a little bit rough. Maybe I should just temper that down a bit. Or, yeah, that's a nicer way of saying things.

Scott Rusnak  37:13

We might have been separated at birth. I do the same thing if, yeah, it's so helpful. And the other thing I do is I press, don't send. Like, I just let it sit there and draft. So if you're emotional and your head's not straight or pump people down a glass of wine or two, it's like, oh, press send. Don't do it. Like, give yourself 24 hours to cool off, go back and look at the message. I must have hundreds of emails in draft that I never sent, because it's like, I never said there was no reason to send that email.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:42

But it's, it's difficult because we are, we're human beings, and we're emotions, you know, we're a whole bunch of emotions all put into a body. It's about being able to recognise but I do like that. I'm the same. I actually have, I think I've got 600 emails in my draft right now, actually, things that I've kind of put in there and kind of go, yep, not going to send it right now. And then sometimes it never gets sent. And that's probably the best thing ever.

Scott Rusnak  38:00

I try not to turn this into a political podcast, but wouldn't it be nice if our world leaders did that? It's like, whoa. Took my foot off the gas here.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:07

I have to say, move on. I know. I'm very grateful that I don't live in the US right now because I am watching from afar in absolute fascination about the stuff that is being shared on social media. And it's like, wow, this is it's interesting.

Scott Rusnak  38:23

Shall we say, let's shift gears quickly. My claim to fame, my brush of fame, is when I played high school hockey in Canada. The goalie for one of the opposing teams is now the Prime Minister of Canada. So there we go. We shifted gears quickly.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:37

Hey, I've got one last question for this is really probably more of my own personal interests, but you talked about shifting from Canada over to the US for your work. How was that for you? Because that's a big change in terms of shifting country. I've done it myself a couple of times now, but you know what has been the I mean, would you ever go back to Canada? Is America now your home, and what made you realise it was absolutely the right move, and how did you adjust?

Scott Rusnak  39:01

Canadian revenue Association has audited me, and the IRS has audited me. So for this, purposes of podcast and public, I'm gonna stay in the States. I'm an American citizen, but we do have a family ski place in a great place called Revelstoke, British Columbia. So I love going back to Canada. I don't want clients there anymore before Oh 605, I had some clients there. It's just so different. The cultures are so different. And when we moved to the States, there was culture shock. Absolutely that could be 10 more podcasts. It was really difficult. My wife wasn't allowed to work. We didn't have any friends, so don't feel sorry for me. But drastically different, wonderful people here. I'd like to my best friends live here, like 99% of my best friends live here, but it's drastically different than living in Canada.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  39:52

It's great that you're able to go back. I think I'm asking from a personal level, as you know, I'm moving to Melbourne soon, but still coming back to New Zealand, and New Zealand is still my home at. It still will always be in my heart. It'll always be my home. But it's of that shift around. And I think sometimes you do that, it's a great thing to make changes for the business, for your personal life. It's not a bad thing. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. Okay, we better wrap this up. So just to be really clear, we talk, we've been talking about saying no, and the importance of saying no, and as we talked about, it's like really understanding who the most important people in your life are, making sure that you're putting them first, putting them into your calendar first. You've got time for them, planning out your calendars, that you actually have everything in there and you know what you're doing and when you're doing it. And then be really careful about the those that you surround yourself with and those but you don't have to cut people off. It's not about shutting the door forever. It's about just saying, hey, it's not right right now. And we're going to share in the podcast notes, the little PDF that Scott's got, which is about how and when to say, No, nice little reference tool that you can just keep in there, just in case you're kind of struggling. And my tip was, you know, using AI to sometimes help you with your some of your responses because, because there's a lot less emotional than us as human beings.

Scott Rusnak  40:59

I hope my brother in love is watching this podcast. He could use some of that.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:03

Hey, Scott, as always, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I always get so much gold from these I'm sure our listeners do too. So thank you again for giving us your time, and really appreciate it.

Scott Rusnak  41:11

I can't wait to see you in November and Melbourne. That'd be fun.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:17

I'm so looking forward to I'm going to get a Scott Rusnak hug finally.

And I think that. Well, I'll make the podcast go long, but we're organising a talk on design your life, so we're going to get that figured out too.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:27

Excellent. Okay, well, we'll make sure we definitely share that. Okay, so we all put a whole bunch of stuff in the notes, where you can find Scott some of the things we've shared here. But again, look forward to seeing you in November, and thank you Scott

Scott Rusnak  41:38

Merci.