Kathy Rushing: Strengthen Your Marriage with CRAVE Before It Drifts

Kathy Rushing  00:00

If it lets them begin to think about their marriage at least as much as they do their business, I think it would change their life. I sometimes see people who they try to take this big, expensive trip, or they buy a big, expensive piece of jewellery for Christmas to make up for the year, and that's not what most of us want. Businesses often don't make it. Businesses will come and go. Maybe you sell it, maybe you start another one. But what you want as that consistent thread is that soft place to land, that partner, the person you fell in love with and envisioned a future together.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:42

What Welcome back to the show. Cathy, it's fantastic to have you back. I know that last time we got a little bit cut off by technology, which was a little bit of a shame, because we were right in the middle of some really meaty discussions. So I invited you back on for part two, so we can continue our discussions where we left off.

Kathy Rushing  00:56

Yeah, thank you, Debra, so much for having me back. I loved your interview the first time it was you're a very easy person to talk to, so I love being back

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:07

That is very kind, as I was just saying to before we jumped on the call. For me, this podcast is very much about I figure if I want to ask the questions to find the answers, probably other people will want to as well. And I think it was just a really beautiful, natural chat around what marriages and businesses have in common and some of the mistakes we can make in both of them. So for those who have not listened to the first podcast, I'd highly recommend that you do because we went through some quite significant things in that podcast, particularly around the similarities between business strategy and keeping a marriage alive, but also about that. You know, you what happens with entrepreneurs a lot of the time is we get really, really hooked up in our business, and we forget about the marriage, the relationships outside of that. So I'm going to just ask you, Kathy, to kind of recap a little bit, just that we've got those things fresh in our mind again. So please, first of all, give us a quick synopsis of, you know who you are, how you got here, and then the crave framework that you came up with, and why that's important.

Kathy Rushing  02:05

So I'm Kathy rushing relationship coach. I was a marriage and family therapist for many, many years, and pivoted a few years ago to really focus on the intersection of marriage and entrepreneurship, business, other high achieving marriages, they all have a similar energy, and that is sometimes success at all costs, including their marriage. And I'm very passionate about healthy marriages, and I've worked with all kinds of marriages, but I especially love this cohort of entrepreneurs, visionaries, leaders. There's just an energy they bring. And I partly got into this because I've been married at this point, 45 years to my serial entrepreneur husband, which we didn't know. I didn't know that word. I didn't know he was an entrepreneur. You know, we started down a path as as a pastor, and so more of that story was in our first discussion. But I realised, excuse me, at a point that we were really struggling. And it wasn't that our marriage was bad, it was just that we were both empty. He had been growing a business for over 12 years. At that point, he was exhausted. I was exhausted, and that's just never a good place to be in marriage. And we had a good foundation, so we were able to get back on track pretty quickly, but it made me realise, because when I started looking around, this was about 12 years ago, I couldn't find anything that talked about that intersection. And so I began to create resources and a podcast and a blog, and I've done some writing, and I last year, sometime, I came up with the crave framework. Crave stands for communication, rituals and rhythms that connect appreciation and affirmation, vision. Where are we going together and individually? Because I think it's important that we don't lose ourself in the process of growing our marriage or growing a business. And then E stands for energy. Without energy, we're not getting any work done. We have nothing left for our personal growth or the people in our lives. So I came up with that I've been in the process of recording some audio content that I will be putting out hopefully by the end of October and. I've I just continue to create tools. I kind of listen for what people are wanting, and I just, I kind of keep beating the drum of just as business, every business has strategies, and you wouldn't think about starting a business without some sort of business plan, some sort of strategy, and it will change along the way. As the business grows, you need more resources. But for some reason, with our marriage, our most important relationship, we just we think we can just set it on autopilot and let it run, and then we're puzzled when we don't, you know, put fuel in the tank and suddenly it's out of gas, and we're shocked. We're like, I don't know. I didn't know there was a problem, you know. So a lot of what I am very passionate about is giving couples tools to stay on track. Before you know there's a wide gap, because it's drift, is kind of a natural process. I guess you could say in a relationship like neutral is not part of a relationship. You're either growing together or you're drifting apart, but neutral doesn't really happen. So that drift can be very subtle. It's a little bit every day. Finally, after a year, it's like, gosh, something just feels different. I can't put my finger on it, and so a lot of what I talk about and write about, I post a lot on LinkedIn. If anyone follows on LinkedIn, are just ways of thinking about your relationship at least a little bit every week. You know you're not going to focus on it to the degree you do your business, because there are many more pieces to the business and the framework that you've developed.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:12

And I think that's really important. And I know that I've been guilty in the past of certainly as an entrepreneur, committing myself entirely to the business and not worrying so much about the relationship, and I think it's really important. But I do have a question for you. It just struck me as you were going through that, and I've seen this with some of the entrepreneurs that I work with as well. Often entrepreneurs do love a bit of structure, a bit of framework. When we give them the EOS tools, they get quite excited about the fact they can write a VTO, they can write their vision down. They can do all of that. But then they approach their marriage, or their relationship with their husband, their wife or their partner, almost in the same kind of business then, so like, right? We need to stand with our meeting. We need to kind of work out what we're going to do, we're going to and often I've seen, you know, I've heard them kind of say, but that, but she or he pushed back and said, but I'm not a business. I don't want to be treated like a business. So I'm keen for you to sort of share with me. How do you how do you even approach this with your partner? If you think maybe you do need to do some work without it feeling like you're just coming in at that typical entrepreneur bullet gate, we're going to deal with this like a business issue.

Kathy Rushing  08:16

I love that question. Debra, well, I think first of all is to start with your intention, like I. I really want us to be together, hand in hand, regardless of what this business does, businesses often don't make it. Businesses will come and go. Maybe you sell it, maybe you start another one. But what you want as that consistent thread is that soft place to land, that partner, the person you fell in love with and envisioned a future together. So I think to keep it from feeling like a business meeting is to begin with, maybe romance, and maybe it's we. I think we need a weekend away together. And as part of that, I would love for us to touch on some different areas goals that we have creating a vision together, because when they have that shared vision, there's nothing that will stop them. But again and I have a list. It's a list of questions that couples might ask in a say, a vision setting. You know, a lot of people do goals together at the beginning of the year, so that might be a very natural rhythm. Our anniversary is in January, and so we typically will go away somewhere for a couple of days. And you know, when our kids. Kids were young, and we would take off for a weekend. It really wasn't anything we did like structured. We didn't have a list of questions like I have since put together for couples, because sometimes couples don't know where to begin. So I've formed some questions, if that's helpful, but you can also anymore in this day of chat, GPT, you could say, could you create a vision, a set of questions to help us create this vision together. So we would go off for the weekend, and it was mostly fun and nice dinners or hiking or something fun we would do, but we being the people that we are always coming up with ideas. I I'm pretty sure that almost every one of those getaways, we came back with some business idea. And again, it wasn't I didn't resent it, because it never felt like Mark had an agenda. It was usually me asking those questions, actually, because I'm I tend to be the one that initiates some of these conversations. But Mark is very, I mean, we just get into these discussions and play off of each other. So, yeah, I would make it romantic first, and then say, you know, what would you think about? Maybe show them the list of questions, what would you add? What would you take away? And the reason I would like to do it is to make sure that I don't lose track of what's important to you. You know. So by stating our intention and making it first about the relationship and about staying in touch with the other person, because I have seen this in some they don't even have to be entrepreneur marriages, but let's just say some marriages where I've probably seen it more with the woman who maybe is more soft spoken and tends to get lost in the dreams and the ideas of their partner, who maybe is a little more excited. Expansive, excited, and so they get drawn into that energy, but at some point they look around and they're like, I've lost who I am. I don't know what I want anymore, especially when there are kids involved, and if she is the primary caregiver. Even when husbands are very involved, I still see this a lot with women that there is, it's easy to lose themselves. Some of that is kind of personality based. Some personalities are a little more prone to that than others, yeah. So I think having that intention of, I want us to get away, and I want to make sure that we every year, at least once a year, we get away and and we dream, you know, we kind of step back and dream again, what's working, what's not working? What do you want more of? What do you want less of? I mean, even just simple questions like that, it doesn't have to be an EOS.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:26

And actually, it's funny, it is the EOS format we always ask, and we review every quarter what's working, what's not working, you know, so, so it's so it's appealing to me. I'm kind of going, this makes perfect sense. But I think, I think the thing that I've taken from that is it really is about turn the intention, and I guess approaching, as you said, for more from a romantic point of view, and then asking permission as well, rather than just because, I think, again, as entrepreneurs, we tend to be a bit bullish, and we go in there kind of going, we're going to do this. This is what we're going to do on the weekend or our eyes. But I love the way that you position that was like, you know, how would you feel about doing this? And here are some questions I've uncovered. Is there anything missing. So actually having them involved in the process, it doesn't feel like it's forced upon them, but they're you're actually asking for them to be involved because of the intention of wanting to make the relationship better, you know, and better doesn't imply that it's bad.

Kathy Rushing  14:13

I think another thing that trips up a lot of couples is, and I'll hear this sometimes from men whose wife has set up an appointment with me, and it's like, we're not that bad, you know. Oh, come on, we're not that bad, you know? It's like, No, you're right, you're right. But this is proactive. It's the difference between going to the gym and going to the cardiologist for open heart surgery.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:41

Yes, I'd rather go to the gym. I think it's really interesting. I mean, Gino Wickman, who actually wrote traction and obviously developed Eos, he talked about the fact one of the biggest things he ever did was to actually get a therapist for his own personal well being as well. And it, you know, sometimes we forget that we do need some help, and it's. Not necessarily. It doesn't mean that you're broken, but it's just an opportunity to be able to speak quite openly, to be able to share some of your thinkings and feelings and have a sounding board to bounce that off of. And I think that we see, we see asking for help, going to a therapist, whatever it might be as being, yeah, a sign that something is wrong. But like you said, Isn't it better to be preventative, rather than, you know, fall off the edge of the cliff.

Kathy Rushing  15:23

Yeah, there is a really interesting study that was done. I think it's Dr Friedman. I think it's F, R, I, E, D, M, a n out of I think it's UC, Berkeley. He wrote a paper called touched with fire, where he did surveys of, I won't recall off the top of my head, but of a number of entrepreneurs, the question well, what they were trying to dig into is, is there more? Are entrepreneurs different? Are there more mental health issues? And indeed, they found that there is, there's more depression, there is more ADHD, more bipolar, either with the individual or in their families, and getting a therapist is not a bad idea, because I think a lot of people and then they they put so much of their self worth into their business and the success of that business, so that if something happens to that business, or it doesn't make it, or there's a, you know, downturn in the economy, they're devastated, and they don't know how to they don't know how to do something beyond the business. So I think it's very important, you know, not just to focus on your marriage, but by focusing on your marriage, you actually are focusing on yourself. Because learning to love someone is not easy, and it requires some adaptation. We don't change who we are, but we can adapt to another person, and we can learn to look for the the best, like when a couple marries, I like to say, there's me and there's you, but then there's a circle that forms around the two of you, and there's like A new entity called us. And so learning to consider decisions in light of what is best for us is a really profound place step, I would say, for couples to make.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:53

And second, it says, I can't help but compared to the business stuff, we always talk about the greater good of the business, you know, we have to remove individual things. And like you said, we're not asking. We want everybody to work in their zone of genius and be in their zone of genius, in their in their marriage and relationship too. But at times, you have to say, but what is for the greater good, the greater good of us, as opposed to the greater Yes, the good of myself? Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

Kathy Rushing  18:17

A lot of, lot of people have been kept in positions far longer than they needed to be, right because we didn't want to hurt their feelings, or we whatever reason, but for the greater good of the business, sometimes it is better to replace that person and find a better fit so and so in terms of a marriage or relationship.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:35

You know, you said that we don't want to Well, we can't fundamentally change who we are. Can we? I mean, at the end of the day, we are who we are, but the the adjust. Tell me a little bit more about that. What does that really mean? So adjusting to the US rather than the individual, that shouldn't mean that it goes against your core values or the fundamental personality of who you are, but it's just about considering the broader perspective. Is that true? Right?

Kathy Rushing  19:04

I think that so the first element of crave being communication. There are so many communication well, not so many tools, but there are some real fundamental tools that are important for clear communication. And what happens so often with couples is we defend without really letting the other person know why this thing is important, and sometimes maybe we don't really know ourselves. And so when there is a conflict, or especially when it's one of those, you know, a lot of couples have a conflict that comes up over and over, and maybe it's same song, second verse, maybe it's a little bit different variation. You. But it has a similar feel every time. And so we keep fighting up here on the surface instead of going a little deeper and asking, help me understand those are three words that will change your communication. Help me understand why this is important to you, because it's not making sense to me, or I don't understand it, and I want to understand why you're so adamant about saving money, let's say, and the other one's a free spender and wants to go travel the world. Again, those are values for each person, and you're not going to change them. Most conflict, I can't remember if I mentioned this last time or not, but most conflicts, something like, I don't know, 80 something percent is never resolved. It's managed and for that very reason, because it has to do with deeper our motivations, our values or our personality. Let's say one person is very quiet and introverted, and their spouse is an extrovert, and they like to go to all the parties and all the networking events, and they want to drag their spouse along. And this spouse is like, I can't. I just can't. And so the other one takes it personally. What you don't want to be with me? No, it's not about that, you know? So we have to get to the why, why is this important? Or why do you not want to do this? And that that takes some tools to be able to untangle those, those issues. I think that when we talk about us, that vision is what you know, comes alongside that concept, what is the marriage that we want to have. What type of a life do we want to have? Do we want children? Do we not want children? Do we want to buy a home? Do we want to live on a boat? You know? I mean, it's just an endless number of things that you could process together and in the process of creating that vision, if you're clear about where you're going, then you have a clearer concept of us, and within that us, though there is still a me. I am, who I am, and I have, I have like I love photography. My husband is, is a great Sherpa. He'll carry around my camera equipment. He loves to bird hunt. He loves to hunt. I'm in his office, and I don't know if you can see that there's an elk head behind me. Yeah. Never a great background for these podcasts. But next week we're going to Montana to bird hunt. And I I kid him, and I say, I always shoot something with my camera, you know, even when he doesn't get anything. So, you know. But that's a that's the give and take that has us as the overarching I don't know, does that make sense?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:19

Absolutely does. Yeah, that's good and I suppose. And often, of course, opposites do attract. And I always joke that I you know, that I really wouldn't want another version of me to be in the relationship with me, because it'll be way too much like hard work. But there can be differences in the way that we approach things, and so entrepreneurs are often, as you said, they've got ADHD, maybe some bipolar. They're very driven. They're very they do take a lot of things personally. They do get defensive. And I see this in my clients. I see it myself at times, without really understanding why. I'm sure there's deeper, deeper stuff that goes way back to childhood or whatever it might be. But how do you balance those very, different personality types in a relationship. We're going into a lot more deeper stuff now, but yeah, just trying to understand, how do we make sure that both people get heard and both people have their their needs met?

Kathy Rushing  24:16

Yeah, love that question. Also Debra, one of the things that I love to do with couples is I give them a version of the DISC profile.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:28

Have you ever Yes, I'm very much a proponent. I have indeed.

Kathy Rushing  24:32

Yes. I mean, I'm kind of an assessment geek. I love all of them, but I love disc because with the four dimensions, it's pretty easy to to comprehend and understand what it's about. So I actually have a package called uniquely us, and I give the DISC profile to both people, and then I do. To a combination report and the disc taps into a person's a bit of their wiring, if you will, if you think of how your personality is, you know, it's not a an extensive personality test, but it does tap into aspects of our personality, how we go about doing things, and along with that, we have preferred communication patterns. So for instance, the s on the disc, well, disc is D is for dominance, I is for influence. The S is steadiness and C is compliance. And someone likened these two animals. So the D is a lion, the i is an otter, the S is the golden retriever, and the C is the beaver. So for instance, if you have one that is a lion, and one that is a golden retriever. The s Golden Retrievers do not like conflict. They don't like to rock the boat. If you have one of them on your team at work like one of the things you learn about communicating with them is to ask for their opinion. You don't wait for them to raise their hand, because they often won't, until you step on something or bring up a topic that they're very passionate about, and then you'll hear from them. So this applies whether it's a team, because I've used the disc with teams also, and it's it's very fascinating, especially there's a wheel that you can mark everyone on, and you get a real visual picture of where everyone is. But when it's a partnership marriage, understanding how the other person is wired. I've had so many couples that go in fact, last night, I had a discovery call with a couple, and I mentioned this to them, and I mentioned what the C is, and they both looked at each other like, that's me. I mean, just with a short description so it it takes away the temptation to make someone different, and instead, because I think one of the keys to a healthy relationship is to be curious about each other. Be curious about yourself also. Why do I get defensive when someone offers a different way of doing something, and I have a thought about that, that defensiveness with your business owners, I'll come back to that. So, so that's a very simple tool that really has a big impact for couples of just taking that assessment, and then looking at their Comparison Report, and then we talk about specific ways this person wants communication and ways you should not talk to them like I'm a high i and one of my don'ts is, don't talk down to me. Oh, that will get me going faster. Yes, I'm, it's actually really interesting.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  28:25

I'm actually, I'm actually a high, I'm a high D, but I'm an even higher. I I have absolutely zero s and very little C.

Kathy Rushing  28:35

Not surprising. I could have predicted.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  28:39

And I think there's probably most entrepreneurs are very similar to that as well. And it's, it's really challenging, because I just don't get the puppy dog

Kathy Rushing  28:47

Right, right, but, but they're wired, you know? And so that's not the only way that that changes. Is when there's a traumatic event, sometimes a person's behavioural style might change, but pretty much this, you know, that's how you're wired, and it's how you've always been. And as a woman, it's even more challenging being a high D. Do you feel like you've gotten that message sometimes? Like Debra, tone down. Just tone down. Take your seat. You know, whereas we don't say that to men, no, can be a little bit Chantry.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:23

So this raised another really interesting question for me. I'm sure other people will have this too, because we are generally quite curious as entrepreneurs like yes, I mean, I think I've done every test out there, got the disc, got the Enneagram, got the Colby, got the Hermes Briggs. I mean, I think I've taken a lot of time to learn about myself and also my team members as well. What if your partner is resistant to that because they sort of say, I don't want to be put in a box, yes, yeah, oh, I've heard that a lot.

Kathy Rushing  29:51

I don't want to be put in a box. And I usually just validate that and say, You're right. No one wants to. Be in a box, and this doesn't define who you are. It's more like a revelation, and it can help us to see especially the Enneagram is good about this, because it's really designed as a self growth process. But even the disc, there are aspects that, you know, we all have blind spots, and we don't want to go looking for them, you know, but your potential for leadership is so much greater when those blind spots are revealed, because the blind spots can destroy you if you don't, you know, look at them, and the same is true in a marriage. So you know, if, if someone's resistant, I mean, you can't force them, but you can. You can maybe just take it yourself and say, Do you mind if I share some of my results or my report with you, and I'd love to have your feedback about whether it sounds accurate or not, and then maybe they would be curious and go, Well, okay, that was because what I've had people say over and over is, oh my gosh, was somebody in my Brain? How did this, you know, reveal me so accurately.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:23

Yeah, and it's interesting. I've been listening to the let them theory by Mel Robbins again, and the second part of the book talks about, you know, you can't. We're talking about a friend who's got a husband who's particularly overweight, and she's trying to kind of force him to go the Gemini like you can't. You cannot change anybody else's behaviour apart from your own and so what you said there is absolutely perfect is, you know, if you if you share your results, if you're excited by what's revealed for you, then maybe you shouldn't go into it with this intention, but maybe the other person will also get excited and want to do something about it. But you can't force it on them and say, Well, I think we need to do this, because that's just going to push them further away. Sure.

Kathy Rushing  31:59

And you know, you could always invite the question with something like, I mean, this is what I learned from my feedback. What is something you would like me to know about you that you think I don't know or recognise?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:19

Like the Johari Window, isn't it early blind spot. So it's wonderful. Okay, we talked a little bit about you're either growing together or you're drifting apart. Sometimes, if we're very engrossed in our business, we might lose sight of when we are potentially drifting apart. Are there any easy signals we can look for and kind of go, okay, what are the early warning signs? If you like the indicator light on the, on the on the dashboard that says, Oh, hold on a second. Something's going on here. That boy's starting drift again, sure.

Kathy Rushing  32:46

Can we talk about sex on your podcast? I can put on my Esther Perel hat, yeah. I mean, I think that is a big one. When couples begin, you know, they they are not intimate as often, which is such a powerful reconnector. And, of course, not the only one other indicators, I would say, irritability, you know, becoming irritable with each other, or finding that you're just maybe you're very efficient. You're both getting a lot done, check off that list, but there's no connection. There's no eye to eye. Tell me about what was good about your day mark and I both read the gap and the gain, oh yes, probably two years ago, and we often will. You know, when we sit down for dinner, it's just become kind of a natural rhythm for us to say, what were your wins today? Did you have three wins some days? Were it really one of us might be really having to dig like it was just a crappy day. I can't find one, but maybe having dinner with you right now is a win. Yeah, when I think back to, you know, the story that I shared in the first episode about our really low point, you know, I look back and thought we were pretty good. And I think that's where a lot of couples find themselves. They're like, we're we're pretty good, until we're not. And it's sometimes, it's like, there's just the straw that breaks the camel's back, and that's what it was for us. It was just, I had felt unappreciated for a very long time, and he was just so in. Empty and exhausted that I don't think he could even recognise what he needed. I observed that he was very irritable. That's not his personality, his typical persona. I think a lot of times, women are a little more tuned in to when there are subtle changes, and they bring it up to their partner, who maybe really hasn't thought about it. And again, it's they're not being unkind or unloving, it's just it just really hadn't even crossed their mind. And so I think the more I think the key to a long term marriage is number one, that it's it's, it's long term. I just wrote my email letter tonight and wrote about how it's very much like running. Two of our kids have done Ultra Trail runs, not just marathons, or I'm talking in the mountains up and down. Our son, did they call it the dirty double he, he ran a 60k on Friday, and the No, yeah, 60k and then 100k the next day, for a total of 100 miles. But I talked about how they they have a pacer, they allow a pacer for about the last 13 minutes, and how we need that in our marriage, because marriage is it's a long if you want a long term marriage, then you you have to know that there are times that you know that we don't feel as romantic or as inspired, or, you know, 10 years into the marriage, it it feels maybe more connected and deeper than it did at the beginning, but it also has a different type of passion or connection, and we can't expect it to be the same all the way through, but it can be better. I found one, one question I think that is helpful, is, how would you rate our marriage in a couple of different areas, maybe intimacy, maybe conversation, maybe recreational, fun. So on a scale of one to 10, where would you rate us? 10 being couldn't be any better. I asked my husband that once on a hike and he was quiet for a very long time, I was like, okay, time's up. Is it that bad? And he said, No, I've just kind of been going through the different areas knowing that there's almost always room for improvement. I thought, bingo, buddy, that's why I married you. But I think, I think taking that approach and saying, Could we be 5% better again? In business? Do you accept your business being just okay? Yeah, no, you always have growth goals. Could always be 5% better.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:15

I'm really loving this. I know the other entrepreneurs, because it really is very, very similar the way that we approach business. It's about taking those principles and kind of using them in your relationship, in but in a softer way, I think, not quite so driven, and more about sort of, you know, taking time to understand, we know as entrepreneurs that, you know, there's, there's definitely some very high stress times, you know, when you're going through growth in a business, you know that I always talk about, there's, there's two part, you know, you either going through growth and You're going so fast the wheels are falling off, or when you're getting or when you're getting ready to exit right when you're going directly exit, that is also a very stressful part. What do we need to do to protect our relationship in those really high stress environments?

Kathy Rushing  38:53

Yes, they those will definitely come, and I think that part of the key is having that strong foundation. And being naming it like there is something very powerful about naming a season like, look, we know we're in a season of growth, and it's going to be crazy, and I'm not sure how long it's going to be, and so then it's maybe a conversation about, how do we stay connected during this time? Because that is the reality of business. I think that's why I'm so passionate about this intersection, is because so many are unprepared for that season of, you know, 110% is going to the business so that the other one doesn't resent it. So I think there are many ways to do, you know, small things, something as small as. I think I might have mentioned this last time, but like a 22nd hug, there's research that shows a 22nd hug. I mean, time it, if you need to, it's really not very long, but just that process, say, first thing in the morning is just such a softening and connecting and and both people can just kind of let their nervous system relax a little bit, be centred before they get into their day. So I think there are many little things that can be done. A midday text, hey, I'm thinking about you. How's your day going? I mean, how long does that take? Literally, less than a minute. If you don't have time for a minute, then you really do have a problem.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  40:54

And I was just thinking with my entrepreneurs out, and I was like, actually, you know, you can use tools and things to actually help remind you. I mean, I think people think it has to be spontaneous, but actually, no, you can't. You can use your VA you can use your reminders on your computer to actually remind you, because it doesn't take very long. But sometimes we just get caught up in everything that's going on and we forget. But I think the key thing I've just taken from that is it's around the communication. I think sometimes we know that we're going through this really horrible, stressful time, everything's going on, but we've just never actually taken the time to explain that to our other half around what is actually going on. And I suppose just that there's the sea of the communication and crave is around, just actually go highlighting it. We're going to be going through this really, really stressful growth period right now. As you said, I don't know how long it will go for. Just a heads up and having letting the other person know

Kathy Rushing  41:45

There's a there's a woman named Trisha harp who has, she did her, I think it was her graduate thesis looking at entrepreneur couples and what, what differentiated healthy couples from those that weren't doing so well, and one of the things that she concluded was how much information is shared about the business, and so I think that's a conversation, an important conversation, as part of communication, how much do you want to know? And let's mark and I were talking about this just last week because we've been in, you know, as I said before, we're rebuilding. So he's running a business. He's also a part time CEO for another business, so it's cuckoo, and we were kind of getting into that pattern again, of that's all we talked about, was the business or the bulk of what we talk about. And I said the other day, I said, I really need for us to try having a set time that we talk about business now, certainly, if something comes up that you need to process, by all means, I'm all ears, but I don't want to be talking about it every single day. Or the only thing that we talk about, I do want to know what's going on. There are some spouses who don't want to know, and that's harder. It makes the entrepreneur feel very isolated. And I've had, actually more women I've heard from whose partner is, say, a w2 you know, employee so they get a paycheck, they don't have much appetite for risk, and they really don't understand what their wife does, you know? And the wife feels very alone in that. And I've suggested some ways that they might invite them to be a partner with them, without carrying the risk, or, you know, if there are parts they don't want to know about, then then respect that, but to also say, I need your support, and this is what it could look like, and be very specific about what you need. Maybe I just need you to ask me what the highlight of my day was, or what is something that I'm carrying right now, I don't expect you to fix it, but it means a lot to me to know that you might be able to at least, let me offload it a little bit.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  44:44

And I think there's real merit in having a structured time that you agree upon whether you know and you agree on the frequency, agree on how long it's from what you want to know and understand in that but it does mean that you're not, as you said, always talking about business, but it means you've got an. I'm in a call an agenda, because I can't help myself. I'm business person, but, you know, having an understanding of the things that you do need to cover off. So the other that's a both people feel comfortable that they've got that outlet, but it's not bleeding into every, every part of your life. Because, yeah, it's sometimes it can be all consuming, right?

Kathy Rushing  45:18

Yeah, the tool that I created that it's the weekly marriage compass, and it's about a 30 minute process, very short questions, but one of them is, what, what is coming up in your week that I need to know about or that I can support you in? You know, it might turn into a longer discussion, but it doesn't have to. It can just be that much of just touching base. And so again, it's that regular and intentional, tuning into your partner and also letting your own needs be known that that keep couples connected.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  46:03

Gosh, I really wish I'd met you a year ago. Would have been very, very helpful. But anyway, it's a bit late for that now. Hey, look, I find this whole subject fascinating. I think the more and more we delve into it, the more more I realise that there are lots of things that you know, I think as business people, we can easily adopt, because it's not so dissimilar to business. But I think that we we perhaps think it's a little bit more challenging than business issues like natural bent. But we have limited time, and I know that you have prepared three top tips or tools for us, so I'm really keen to hear what your three top tips and tools for the listeners are.

Kathy Rushing  46:37

So the three are. The first one is, start small. Don't overhaul everything at once. Just pick one simple rhythm. Maybe it's a monthly date night that is non negotiable, and there is no business talk. And just, you know, put that on the calendar for once a month, I find that entrepreneurs are, they're they're voracious learners, oftentimes. And it's like, give me the whole enchilada. You know, it's like, no, just because that's how we change things. And again, just like going to the gym, you don't go in and start lifting 100 pound weights, you know, you work up to it. So start with one thing, make that part of your relationship until it like when you don't do it, then you miss it, you know, you recognise, oh gosh, we haven't had date night in three months. That's what's missing. We need to set this up again. So start small, because small steps rebuild connection without overwhelm. And I say all the time that it's the small, consistent steps that that you could think of it like a bank account. It's like building up your bank account. The second thing would be to stay consistent, so anchor your relationship in daily, weekly rhythms, again, something like that 22nd hug. It could be coffee together with the question, what do you have on your calendar today? Or what's what do you have going on that I need to know about? Or how can I support you today? Just that simple. So rather, you know, it goes from both people having their coffee or tea and reading the paper or checking email before they leave the house to a moment of connection, simple consistency matters much more than the grand gesture. I sometimes see people who, you know, they try to take this big, expensive trip or they buy a big, expensive piece of jewellery for Christmas to make up for the year. And that's not what most of us want. You know, the third thing would be to think strategically about your marriage, just as you would not build a business without a plan. Don't leave your marriage on autopilot. A simple framework like crave can provide a blueprint so that your relationship grows stronger, even through these hard seasons. And so those three things start small, stay consistent and be intentional. Have a plan, think strategy.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  49:43

I love it. Hey, look, it's really obvious to me that this is something you're very, very passionate about, but you also have a huge amount of knowledge, some of the research and things you shared that's been really helpful to us. If people want to find out more about the work that you do, get hold of the crave framework, maybe even the weekly marriage compass. Those. Things. How do they find that? Please? Kathy, yes.

Kathy Rushing  50:03

So my website is Kathy rushing.com and that's Kathy with a K I'm on LinkedIn. Kathy rushing, you can just, just search my name, and I'd love to connect with anybody that has listened, or would love to get into the DMS there. Most of us don't want to talk about our marriage in public, and I totally understand that. So I always invite people into the DMS, or they can email me at info, at Kathy rushing.com and I'd love to talk. I offer a free 30 minute consultation to anybody you know, if they just want to check in briefly and kind of see where their marriage is at and see how it could be 5% better. I'd love to have that conversation with them, and I've loved having this time with you, Debra. And love the questions that you ask. They're so thoughtful. And I hope, I hope it's been helpful to to your listeners, and just you know, if it lets them begin to think about their marriage at least as much as they do their business, I think it would change their life. I agree.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  51:13

And as you said, it is one of the most important relationships. I think there's also some studies I can't quote exactly who from, but if you, if you have a strong partner in behind you, you are generally more successful in business as well. Absolutely. Yeah, beautiful. Hey, look. Thank you once again for your time. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Learned a lot, taken a bucket load of notes as always, and we will make sure that those links and things are in the podcast notes for people who want to get hold of that too. So Kathy, thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Debra, you.